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[5:02 PM] <photomatt> <meetup>
[5:02 PM] <Podz> evening
[5:02 PM] <stevecooley> hi all
[5:02 PM] <photomatt> we only seem to have one question today, stevecooley want to kick it off?
[5:02 PM] <stevecooley> Yeah, sure
[5:02 PM] <stevecooley> we're working on the themes.wordpress.net project
[5:03 PM] <stevecooley> and we're forseeing a need to be able to track which version of wordpress a theme was developed for
[5:03 PM] <stevecooley> so we were wondering if this is best tracked in the style.css file, or if we should just tag them when they're submitted to the site on our end?
[5:03 PM] <photomatt> probably tag when submitted?
[5:04 PM] <gsnedders> U'd say tag. I doubt there's much use for it in style.css
[5:04 PM] <gsnedders> * I'd
[5:04 PM] <stevecooley> we're just not up to date on what changes are coming for theme development, so we weren't sure how big a deal this is going to be
[5:04 PM] <stevecooley> we can do either one, but we thought it was worth asking you your opinions
[5:05 PM] <stevecooley> that's all I had
[5:05 PM] <stevecooley> :)
[5:06 PM] <rboren> If a theme provides a functions.php or attachment.php then it is 1.6 only unless it downgrades smartly.
[5:06 PM] <skeltoac> Themes that do naughty things like query the db directly could be broken by any db schema change.
[5:06 PM] <error_bot> skeltoac: Sent 22 hours and 26 minutes ago: <io_error> get hold of me, quick
[5:06 PM] <skeltoac> oops ;)
[5:06 PM] <photomatt> not too quick ;)
[5:06 PM] <photomatt> rboren, good idea. they could just check for that file
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[5:06 PM] <stevecooley> ok, so we can probably extrapolate that from the list of file and tag it automatically
[5:06 PM] <stevecooley> right :)
[5:08 PM] <photomatt> sounds cool
[5:08 PM] <stevecooley> ok, thank you
[5:08 PM] <photomatt> the only other news I can think of
[5:08 PM] <skeltoac> I added a topic
[5:08 PM] <Podz> I did too
[5:08 PM] <photomatt> is that a WP beta is going out ver ysoon
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[5:08 PM] <stevecooley> woo
[5:09 PM] <photomatt> there are some things to do first: a few bugs ot close and the forums Podz requested
[5:09 PM] <Podz> which was a warmly rec'd idea on the mailing list
[5:09 PM] <gsnedders> photomatt: is the version 1.6 page on the codex up to date?
[5:09 PM] <photomatt> gsnedders, probably not
[5:09 PM] <gsnedders> as I expected
[5:09 PM] <photomatt> okay, we have new topics
[5:09 PM] <photomatt> skeltoac, want to talk about tinymce?
[5:10 PM] <skeltoac> Yeah, I have a little bit on that.
[5:11 PM] <skeltoac> I have read several complaints about the way the editor works.
[5:11 PM] <skeltoac> The user experience is key.
[5:12 PM] <skeltoac> So I've been smoothing those things out by plugging in little functions here and there. Stuff like editing comments and old plaintext posts.
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[5:12 PM] <skeltoac> The hotkeys issue was hot on the list for a while but it seems to have died.
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[5:13 PM] <skeltoac> The only real collision that was mentioned (IIRC) was Alt-D.
[5:14 PM] <masquerade> personally, I vote that that one is left in, we have many other, more logical shortcuts for the address bar in browsers
[5:14 PM] <photomatt> what is alt-d for?
[5:14 PM] <masquerade> ctrl/command + L, f6 in FF and IE, Opera's is completely customizable
[5:14 PM] <masquerade> photomatt, focus the addressbar
[5:14 PM] <photomatt> skeltoac, are these the same shortcuts used in the quicktags?
[5:14 PM] <photomatt> quicktags have had accesskeys forever that a lot of people have already gotten used to
[5:15 PM] <skeltoac> photomatt: Pretty much, with several added.
[5:15 PM] <photomatt> were you able to make it so they only work when focused on the editor?
[5:15 PM] <skeltoac> D is for Del (strikethrough)
[5:16 PM] <photomatt> can we just not have a quickkey for that one?
[5:17 PM] <skeltoac> Quicktags already uses D :)
[5:17 PM] <skeltoac> It was only one complaint and it wasn't seconded. I'm comfortable leaving D in.
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[5:18 PM] <masquerade> I'd agree, for the same reason as I mentioned a second ago, Ctrl/Command+L makes much more sense, and is slightly more common
[5:18 PM] <photomatt> ctrl-L doesn't work in IE
[5:19 PM] <masquerade> photomatt, it serves the same purpose, to visit a location
[5:20 PM] <photomatt> okay since it was already used in quicktags
[5:20 PM] <skeltoac> I'm not too concerned; if somebody is on the Write page, they're not very likely to want to jump to the address bar.
[5:20 PM] <photomatt> and I don't recall many complaints about that
[5:20 PM] <photomatt> let's leave it in, and just monitor feedback
[5:20 PM] <skeltoac> Sounds fine.
[5:20 PM] <photomatt> Podz, want to make some "forum points"?
[5:21 PM] <Podz> yep
[5:21 PM] <Podz> I put the idea of a Beta forum to the mailing list. The response was positive. Hopefully it'll give you guys just the one place to monitor.
[5:21 PM] <Podz> leave the creation of that to you matt ? You know when it goes beta :)
[5:22 PM] <photomatt> you can go ahead and set up the forum now
[5:22 PM] <photomatt> the beta won't be available for download until later
[5:23 PM] <Podz> and there will be an increase in moderators too so we can bring a little more order to the forums. Moshu and vkaryl are now mods, and a couple more will be invited in a week or so. This wil help to get posts in the right place, get tags right, delete spam etc
[5:23 PM] <gsnedders> beta of what? bbpress?
[5:23 PM] <Podz> that's it from me
[5:24 PM] <photomatt> gsnedders, beta of WP
[5:24 PM] <photomatt> Podz, sounds good
[5:24 PM] <Podz> I'd rather wait until the beta is out to avoid any grabbing of the alpha
[5:25 PM] <photomatt> thanks for being so proactive with the forums, it's really helpful
[5:25 PM] <masquerade> I agree, traffic on the testers list seems abnormally high even now
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[5:27 PM] <photomatt> alright cool
[5:27 PM] <photomatt> anything else people wanted to cover?
[5:27 PM] <skeltoac> Quick one.
[5:27 PM] <photomatt> skeltoac, sure
[5:28 PM] <skeltoac> inline-uploading is going to start accepting MANY more mime types.
[5:28 PM] <skeltoac> They won't have thumbnails, but they should have some kind of representative icon.
[5:29 PM] <skeltoac> Could anyone work up a little tarball of default icons for that?
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[5:29 PM] <skeltoac> Going once...
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[5:30 PM] <io_error> Sorry, I was held up.
[5:30 PM] <io_error> er, delayed, not robbed.
[5:30 PM] <shep> don't mean to jump in the middle of whats going on here but....
[5:30 PM] <shep> has anyone heard from relle?
[5:30 PM] <skeltoac> Sold to the man in the io_error!
[5:30 PM] <io_error> shep: not lately.
[5:30 PM] <photomatt> skeltoac, it might be too late to really roll a lot of that in
[5:31 PM] <Podz> photomatt, has a decision about the plugins been made ?
[5:31 PM] <photomatt> I'm going to decide pretty soon
[5:31 PM] <Podz> the default theme was also mentioned on hackers ....
[5:31 PM] <io_error> I have a 1.6-question, when we get to a good point for such a thing.
[5:31 PM] <photomatt> Podz, no chance that will change in this release
[5:32 PM] <Podz> :)
[5:32 PM] <Podz> thanks - that helps the support side
[5:32 PM] <photomatt> candidates are BB, skippy's backup, one of the email subscription plugins, akismet
[5:32 PM] <Podz> wp-grins!
[5:32 PM] <photomatt> does wp-grins even work with the new version?
[5:32 PM] <io_error> Plugins being bundled with WP? Is that the question?
[5:32 PM] <photomatt> yes, bundling 2-3 plugins
[5:33 PM] <io_error> hmm
[5:33 PM] <io_error> if it's to be BB, I want to make it a little less strict
[5:33 PM] <mumbles> bundling plugins would be cool
[5:34 PM] <io_error> error_bot: time
[5:34 PM] <error_bot> io_error: 10:34 PM, November 16, 2005
[5:34 PM] <mumbles> showoff
[5:34 PM] <io_error> otherwise I'll wind up with a support nightmare
[5:34 PM] <mumbles> :D
[5:34 PM] <Podz> wp-grins: It had better :) I'll sort it ready for whenever
[5:35 PM] <io_error> photomatt: though my vote would be for the "double whammy" :)
[5:36 PM] <photomatt> if akismet is included it'll only be if getting a wp.com account is much easier, as in no invites or flock
[5:37 PM] <io_error> photomatt: hm. I would say
[5:37 PM] * io_error forgets what he was going to say
[5:37 PM] <mumbles> can't you include an option ? install aksimet if you have an account ?
[5:37 PM] <masquerade> photomatt, personally, I think that a different way of getting api keys would be slightly better
[5:37 PM] <photomatt> plugins are always deactivated by default
[5:38 PM] <mumbles> sorry all for spelling and typos - i am on a high tonight for some reasion
[5:38 PM] <masquerade> polluting wp.com with accounts only existent to get that api key doesn't seem like a nice choice
[5:38 PM] <masquerade> that's just my thought though
[5:38 PM] <ringmaster> I had some reservations about including any "spam" plugins, as mentioned in my wp-hackers post. Easy API keys addresses some of my concern over Akismet.
[5:39 PM] <photomatt> masquerade, I don't see that as wp.com pollution
[5:39 PM] <mumbles> masquerade: yeh
[5:39 PM] <io_error> I only have reservations about including BB because my email is likely to increase a hundredfold. :)
[5:39 PM] <photomatt> ringmaster, yes it addresses the "what to do when spammers change" problem
[5:39 PM] <masquerade> photomatt, ever account gets a subdomain right? hundreds of subdomains with nothing on them seems like pollution to me
[5:39 PM] <photomatt> it's no different than a URL at profiles.yahoo.com/username
[5:40 PM] <masquerade> other people who actually want to use those accounts could be wanting that url, and personally I find nothing more annoying than trying to get a username to have it be taken by a person who has done nothing with it
[5:40 PM] <ringmaster> photomatt: Actually "what to do when spammers change" wasn't one of my concerns of Akismet. I was concerned about the ease of obtaining an API key, and the commercial nature of the plugin.
[5:41 PM] <photomatt> the plugin is GPL and could be used with another service instead of akismet if someone supported the API
[5:42 PM] <photomatt> the service is commercial because otherwise I can't commit to running it long-term if it's not sustainable
[5:42 PM] <io_error> ringmaster: in addition, how to deal with spam turns out to be a highly personal thing. People almost always have disagreements on how much work they will tolerate to deal with spam, and what sort of work they should do to deal with it.
[5:42 PM] * io_error plots to set up an akismet-compatible service
[5:43 PM] <photomatt> anyway I'd like to wrap the meeting up and work on some final bugs
[5:43 PM] <ringmaster> But you would be distributing a plugin with the core "free-as-in-whatever" WordPress that requires payment for use from sites that are commercial. If there is no conflict of interest there, then ok.
[5:44 PM] <photomatt> ringmaster, I'm still thinking it over
[5:44 PM] <ringmaster> That's cool.
[5:44 PM] * ringmaster attends not to annoy, but to inspire thought.
[5:45 PM] <photomatt> thank you :)
[5:45 PM] <io_error> OK, quick stupid 1.6 question.
[5:45 PM] <photomatt> io_error, quick!
[5:45 PM] <io_error> How do I tell if my post is appearing in the Post Preview frame?
[5:45 PM] <io_error> Is there a is_draft() or something like that?
[5:45 PM] <photomatt> if post_status != 'publish'?
[5:45 PM] <io_error> Right
[5:45 PM] <io_error> We need a template function, because everyone who runs adsense is going to have to modify their code
[5:46 PM] <ringmaster> Published posts also appear in the preview frame.
[5:46 PM] <photomatt> true
[5:46 PM] <io_error> ringmaster: Published posts don't matter - it's draft ones I'm worried about.
[5:46 PM] <photomatt> why?
[5:46 PM] <io_error> You don't want to serve a 404 to your advertisers.
[5:46 PM] <io_error> adsense goes all haywire on you if it can't read the document the ads are appearing on.
[5:46 PM] <ringmaster> Yeah, that's bad.
[5:47 PM] <Podz> matt - UK, december ?
[5:47 PM] <io_error> Google specifically prohibits putting ads on 404 pages, too.
[5:47 PM] <io_error> ringmaster: mainly I wanted to know if there was a function already; if not, I'll do up a ticket and patch
[5:48 PM] <mumbles> if theres any uk wordpress stuff on in december ill comealong
[5:48 PM] <ringmaster> io_error: Go for it. Great idea.
[5:48 PM] <photomatt> alright cool
[5:48 PM] <io_error> And that's it.
[5:49 PM] <photomatt> groovy
[5:49 PM] <mumbles> are we doing any big advertising for wordpress 1.6 ?
[5:49 PM] <photomatt> with that, let's ajourn
[5:49 PM] <photomatt> </meetup>