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[5:03 PM] <photomatt> alright, <meetup>
[5:03 PM] <davidhouse> wahey.
[5:03 PM] <photomatt> first topic is "status of other projects"
[5:03 PM] <photomatt> is anyone here from elixir, theme browser, plugin authors, etc that would like tho show and tell?
[5:04 PM] <davidhouse> masq is an elixir coder, methinks.
[5:04 PM] * davidhouse pokes him into the middle of the cir
[5:04 PM] <stevecooley> theme browser!
[5:04 PM] <davidhouse> oops
[5:04 PM] <masquerade> Not much new lately to tell, not sure what everyone has seen of it in the past, but publishing plugins to elixir is about finished
[5:04 PM] <masquerade> that is all
[5:04 PM] <stevecooley> well, one of the theme browsers
[5:04 PM] <photomatt> could you give a broad overview of what elixir is?
[5:05 PM] <photomatt> then stevecooley can go
[5:05 PM] <stevecooley> k
[5:05 PM] <masquerade> http://wp-elixir.com/ <-- I do believe firas summarized it pretty well there
[5:06 PM] <stevecooley> nice
[5:06 PM] <io_error> If anyone HASN'T seen it yet, I've begun work on Bad Behavior 2.0, which is being completely redesigned from ground up. Comments and suggestions are needed at this time (or later).
[5:06 PM] <photomatt> io_error, link?
[5:06 PM] <io_error> Bug reports, too, but that's less critical, since it's mostly going to be fresh new code.
[5:06 PM] <io_error> http://error.wordpress.com/2005/10/25/bad-behavior-2-roadmap/
[5:07 PM] <io_error> BTW I have to hit the road here in about 45 minutes, and I'll be away from civilization for roughly 24 hours as I make my way back home.
[5:07 PM] <photomatt> safe travels
[5:07 PM] <photomatt> stevecooley, you're up
[5:07 PM] <stevecooley> http://themes.wordpress.net/tv/
[5:07 PM] <io_error> (Of course, it could be argued I've been away from civilization all this time.)
[5:08 PM] <stevecooley> Alphaoide has been connecting the data to his front end code
[5:08 PM] <davidhouse> that looks great.
[5:08 PM] <stevecooley> it's not 100% yet, but,
[5:08 PM] <davidhouse> a lot better than the old version
[5:08 PM] <stevecooley> it's working to some degree
[5:08 PM] <photomatt> stevecooley, nice!
[5:08 PM] <gsnedders> stevecooley: it looks a bit buggy in safari
[5:08 PM] <stevecooley> yes
[5:08 PM] <stevecooley> agreed, there's a safari bug
[5:09 PM] <ringmaster> The demo works and everything. Sweet.
[5:09 PM] <stevecooley> there's a lot of functionality we can continue to build in, specifically around being able to search for tags like "3 column, left sidebar"
[5:09 PM] <stevecooley> that kind of thing
[5:09 PM] <stevecooley> er, 2 column, left sidebar..
[5:09 PM] <photomatt> I like the flickr-style paging
[5:09 PM] <photomatt> yes, tagging would be cool :)
[5:10 PM] <masquerade> stevecooley, remind me to talk to you later about the possibility of integrating that and one click installing via elixir later :-P
[5:10 PM] <stevecooley> It's all built into the back end already, so
[5:10 PM] <photomatt> add tagging and you can get VC like elixir
[5:10 PM] <davidhouse> the individual theme view is nice.
[5:10 PM] <stevecooley> we just need to make a search page
[5:10 PM] <photomatt> stevecooley, how is it maintained?
[5:10 PM] <stevecooley> Masq: ok
[5:11 PM] <stevecooley> the... backend has a script that will scan the directory of folders and see if there are any new ones that aren't in the database yet. if it finds one, it compiles a list of files in the folder and enters a new record
[5:11 PM] <stevecooley> if it sees that the modification date of a folder is different than what it's expecting, it updates the existing record
[5:11 PM] <photomatt> nice
[5:12 PM] <photomatt> where do the thumbnails come from?
[5:12 PM] <stevecooley> Tagging is fairly academic.. you can add new tags, and apply them in any number to any theme
[5:12 PM] <photomatt> how about rating?
[5:12 PM] <stevecooley> thumbnails are m-a-n-u-a-l-l-y generated :(
[5:12 PM] <stevecooley> maybe when we're smarter we can solve that
[5:12 PM] <photomatt> honestly, some themes aren't very good, so it'd be nice to be able to filter on ratings
[5:12 PM] <stevecooley> we have a ratings system in the works as well
[5:13 PM] <stevecooley> :)
[5:13 PM] <photomatt> theme screenshots? I dunno. maybe using khtml or something
[5:13 PM] <photomatt> Someone told me the other day it wasn't hard, but I'm skeptical
[5:13 PM] -->| NeuroCide (n=Rehan@host179-57-dsl.dols.net.pk) has joined #wordpress-meetup
[5:13 PM] <masquerade> stevecooley, themes are able to come with a thumbnail nowadays, so relying on theme authors to provide thumbnails at the very least might be worth it
[5:13 PM] <stevecooley> yeah, I haven't seen an automatable solution yet
[5:13 PM] <davidhouse> talk to the icapture guy
[5:13 PM] <ringmaster> I spent a day trying to automate it. My solution was very messy.
[5:13 PM] <stevecooley> yeah, we look for the standard file in the folder
[5:13 PM] <photomatt> but yes, using theme thumbnails when they're there would be good
[5:14 PM] <photomatt> all sounds very cool :)
[5:14 PM] <photomatt> is there anything you need help with?
[5:14 PM] <stevecooley> If there's a thumbnail file in the theme folder, per the 1.6 heads up we got, then it uses that
[5:14 PM] <stevecooley> otherwise it displays the "no screenshot available" image
[5:15 PM] -->| skippy (firstname.lastname@example.org) has joined #wordpress-meetup
[5:15 PM] <stevecooley> that's about where we at!
[5:15 PM] <davidhouse> awesome.
[5:15 PM] <photomatt> looking very good
[5:16 PM] <stevecooley> yeah, a few more things to build to be able to search on tags, and I think it'll qualify for "awesome"
[5:16 PM] <stevecooley> shadow and alphaoide have been great to collaborate with on this
[5:16 PM] <stevecooley> I know there have been a few others who have been helping with ideas and screenshots as well
[5:17 PM] <stevecooley> *high five*s all around
[5:17 PM] <photomatt> :)
[5:17 PM] <photomatt> any other plugin authors or projects want to pipe up?
[5:18 PM] <io_error> I have a question along those lines.
[5:18 PM] <photomatt> okay
[5:18 PM] <io_error> I hear there's a new plugin competition upcoming, any further details on that?
[5:18 PM] <photomatt> from WLTC, right? I read about it but don't know anything beyond that
[5:19 PM] <masquerade> I think right now they're just looking for judges
[5:19 PM] <davidhouse> i guess it'll be in a similar vein as the previous ones.
[5:19 PM] <davidhouse> i saw a blog post asking for judge volenteers.
[5:19 PM] <io_error> Right, but for six months?!
[5:19 PM] <masquerade> io_error, six months?
[5:19 PM] <skippy> the competition runs for six months
[5:19 PM] <io_error> Yeah, the post seemed to imply the contest would run from like December to June
[5:20 PM] <io_error> 2006
[5:20 PM] <davidhouse> http://weblogtoolscollection.com/archives/2005/10/24/wordpress-programming-competition-2-calling-all-judges/
[5:20 PM] <masquerade> oh, holy crap
[5:20 PM] <skippy> ostensibly to allow authors to better develop better plugins.
[5:20 PM] <photomatt> because it has to be started in the period, right?
[5:20 PM] <davidhouse> "starting at the beginning of December and lasting through the end of May next year"
[5:20 PM] <photomatt> I think that's too long personally, but I see the thinking
[5:20 PM] <io_error> yeah, three months is stretching it, six is insane
[5:21 PM] <ringmaster> Well, it's no worse than the Emmys, for example.
[5:21 PM] <io_error> Oh please.
[5:21 PM] <masquerade> ringmaster, there is a large difference between programming and the Emmys :-P
[5:21 PM] <io_error> We dont' have a Michael Moore
[5:22 PM] <ringmaster> Is that something you wanted?
[5:22 PM] <io_error> uh...
[5:22 PM] <io_error> Let me get back to you on that.
[5:22 PM] <photomatt> well people should leave comments on the entry so mark can incorporate the feedback
[5:24 PM] <davidhouse> "# WordPress non-profit status matt 20:45, 26 Oct 2005 (GMT)"
[5:25 PM] <photomatt> sounds good
[5:25 PM] <photomatt> not much to update there, I have a meeting with Mitch Kapor tomorrow about it so I should have more next week
[5:26 PM] <skippy> photomatt: are you planning 501(c)(3) status?
[5:26 PM] <photomatt> I just wanted to keep everyone updated on the status
[5:26 PM] <photomatt> skippy, absolutely, or going under an already-existing non-profit
[5:26 PM] <skippy> photomatt: "going under" as in "fiscal sponsorship" ?
[5:26 PM] <photomatt> yes
[5:26 PM] <photomatt> are you a non-profit wiz?
[5:26 PM] <skippy> in order to achieve 501(c)(3) in Ohio you need a coporation, with a Board.
[5:27 PM] <skippy> I am in the process of creating a 501(c)(3) here for another project.
[5:27 PM] <skippy> in Ohio, the Board needs to be three human beings. Don't know what California law stipulates.
[5:27 PM] <skippy> and soliciting donations as a 501(c)(3) can be extermely tricky.
[5:27 PM] <photomatt> good point, what do you all think would be a good composition for the board?
[5:28 PM] <skippy> Some states require you to register with their attorneys general in order to solicit donations in that state. Internet soliciations DO count as solicitations in that state.
[5:28 PM] <io_error> a coder, a plugin author, a couple of users...
[5:28 PM] <photomatt> assuming it's 3-5 people
[5:28 PM] <skippy> the Board, ideally, should be people who are not necessarily involved with day-to-day WP
[5:29 PM] <skippy> the Board is for oversight.
[5:29 PM] <photomatt> yes, it's mostly organizational and oversight
[5:29 PM] <skippy> not many people effectively oversee themselves or their peers.
[5:29 PM] <gsnedders> and what would they have to do?
[5:29 PM] <photomatt> at least one person who has significant non-profit experience should be part of it
[5:29 PM] <skippy> gsnedders: they would be the fiscal and legal representation for WordPress
[5:30 PM] <io_error> photomatt: post on the devblog, I'm sure there's a WP user out there who can help
[5:30 PM] <stevecooley> I served on the board of directors of my dot com that never made money, that's essentially non-profiting :)
[5:30 PM] <gsnedders> :)
[5:30 PM] <davidhouse> stevecooley: lol ;)
[5:30 PM] <skippy> there's lots of ways you can form a Board though. Some organizations suggest "member organizations" where a membership elects the Board members.
[5:30 PM] -->| mikelittle (email@example.com) has joined #wordpress-meetup
[5:30 PM] <skippy> in that way, you can ensure that the Board represents the passion of the "line staff" appropriately
[5:31 PM] <skippy> outside of that, there's a risk that the Board could take the organization in a direction that the staff/volunteers dislike; and there's little real recourse available at that point.
[5:31 PM] <ringmaster> What does the board control then, exactly?
[5:31 PM] <skippy> ringmaster: money. policy.
[5:31 PM] <skippy> the Board hires and supervises the Executive Director
[5:32 PM] <skippy> the E.D. hires staff.
[5:32 PM] <skippy> the E.D. reports to the Board. They choose which programs and policies get funding, and how much.
[5:32 PM] <skippy> How that will play out in the context of WordPress is up for discussion.
[5:32 PM] <ringmaster> Hmm. A board on non-entrenched people controlling policy on an OS project seems like doom in a can.
[5:33 PM] <skippy> the publisher "Nolo" has a really good non-profit book for those interested.
[5:33 PM] <photomatt> the point of the board isn't to direct WP development
[5:33 PM] <skippy> http://search.nolo.com/cs.html?charset=iso-8859-1&url=http%3A//www.nolo.com/product.cfm/ObjectID/18D2F5C4-B633-4B64-BF1AD9691D00B894/111/262/&qt=nonprofit&col=b2store&n=2&la=en
[5:33 PM] <photomatt> it's to make sure assets that I currently own can be transferred to an entity that will ensure they're continued usage
[5:33 PM] <photomatt> ex: wordpress.org
[5:34 PM] <photomatt> in case a bus hits me
[5:34 PM] <skippy> it's also to ensure fundraising.
[5:34 PM] <photomatt> skippy, hopefully that can be kept to a minimu
[5:34 PM] <photomatt> m
[5:34 PM] <photomatt> ideally there would be no paid staff or directors
[5:35 PM] <skippy> http://www.nolo.com/product.cfm/ObjectID/866819FA-DA0C-486F-B7E88BED8FE26110/111/262/
[5:35 PM] <photomatt> skippy, I'll order that
[5:35 PM] <skippy> i got my copy from the library. =)
[5:35 PM] <skippy> it's not likely you'll need it once you're done. =)
[5:35 PM] <photomatt> if we get the fiscal sponsorship of an already existing non-profit, it makes things a lot easier it seems
[5:37 PM] <skippy> it can take up to six months to receive a ruling from the IRS.
[5:37 PM] <skippy> so, plan accordingly.
[5:37 PM] <photomatt> we can discuss it more next week, thanks for sharing your expertise skippy :)
[5:37 PM] <skippy> cheers
[5:38 PM] <ringmaster> Yeah, don't get hit by a bus for at least another six months. After that, go for it!
[5:38 PM] <photomatt> heh
[5:38 PM] <gsnedders> lol :)
[5:38 PM] <davidhouse> heh
[5:39 PM] <photomatt> last topic, akismet! any thoughts or feedback on it?
[5:39 PM] <io_error> heh
[5:39 PM] <davidhouse> yeah, a question
[5:39 PM] <photomatt> shoot
[5:39 PM] <davidhouse> i understand the web service bit. good idea. should have been done ages ago
[5:39 PM] <davidhouse> what i don't get is the wp.com tie-in.
[5:39 PM] <io_error> it's called cross-marketing ;)
[5:40 PM] <photomatt> it's a place where people have verified user accounts
[5:41 PM] <io_error> davidhouse: to prevent spammers trying to poison the server
[5:41 PM] <photomatt> and has tons of infrastructure in place
[5:41 PM] <davidhouse> right.
[5:41 PM] <io_error> photomatt: yes, a comment
[5:41 PM] <davidhouse> to stop spammers spamming the antispammers.
[5:41 PM] <davidhouse> makes sense.
[5:41 PM] <photomatt> yes, that's one benefit
[5:41 PM] <io_error> photomatt: I spoke with someone in Australia concerned about network latency. Any plans,a s this thing gets bigger, to mirror it overseas?
[5:42 PM] <--| skippy has left #wordpress-meetup ("Free as in Puppies!")
[5:42 PM] <NeuroCide> yea, codex gets pretty slow to browse here in Pakistan sometimes
[5:42 PM] <photomatt> absolutely
[5:42 PM] <io_error> sweet
[5:42 PM] <ringmaster> Is it then not possible to have a wordpress.com account without a wordpress.com blog?
[5:42 PM] <io_error> does akismet have paying customers yet? :)
[5:43 PM] <io_error> ringmaster: no - but nothing says you have to blog there!
[5:43 PM] <photomatt> yeah, just reserve your name
[5:43 PM] <photomatt> link to your blogs, never update it again
[5:43 PM] <ringmaster> Seems kind of wasteful... That's what I'm already doing. :)
[5:43 PM] <io_error> ringmaster: eh, bits is bits
[5:43 PM] <NeuroCide> can you use akismet and still have a words list that sends comments straight to moderation?
[5:43 PM] <io_error> NeuroCide: yes
[5:44 PM] <photomatt> ringmaster, one blog that's never updated uses almost no resources, it's a rounding error
[5:44 PM] <ringmaster> Can more than one blog use the same API code?
[5:44 PM] <io_error> ringmaster: yes
[5:44 PM] * io_error has the API key in use on two blogs
[5:44 PM] <photomatt> ringmaster, yes, but it's best if you keep it only for blogs you run
[5:44 PM] <photomatt> because the API key is like a password
[5:45 PM] <photomatt> still working on that, I got a Real Lawyer to write one and it's very user-unfriendly
[5:45 PM] <NeuroCide> so we're allowed to just link from our wp.com blog to our main blogs and don't have to blog at all at wp.com ?
[5:45 PM] <io_error> NeuroCide: sure
[5:45 PM] <photomatt> NeuroCide, sure, you can do whatever you want except spam :)
[5:45 PM] <io_error> oh crap!
[5:45 PM] <io_error> there went my brilliant idea
[5:45 PM] <davidhouse> photomatt: in which case can we have a user-friendly one as well?
[5:45 PM] <gsnedders> photomatt: make sure you get an english tranlation
[5:45 PM] <photomatt> haha
[5:45 PM] <ringmaster> io_error : That's all you ever write!
[5:46 PM] <io_error> LOL
[5:46 PM] <io_error> ringmaster: I write stupidity, not spam
[5:46 PM] <io_error> er, I write ABOUT stupidity
[5:46 PM] <photomatt> basically the gist is, comments are never shown publicly, stats are tracked on a per-blog level but non-spam personal information isn't saved anywhere
[5:46 PM] <ringmaster> Subtle distinction.
[5:46 PM] <NeuroCide> are there any plans on allowing wp.com users to change the css anytime soon?
[5:46 PM] <io_error> <- Department of Homeland Stupidity
[5:47 PM] <photomatt> NeuroCide, customization is on the roadmap
[5:47 PM] <io_error> NeuroCide: yes, but it's a lot of work to allow that in a secure manner
[5:47 PM] <ringmaster> Is personally identifiable information stored at the WP.com/akismet.com server?
[5:47 PM] <davidhouse> was scoble a test or an exception?
[5:47 PM] <davidhouse> ah, cool.
[5:47 PM] <io_error> ringmaster: depends on what you enter in the Profile page :)
[5:47 PM] <photomatt> scoble I did manually, he doesn't have anything special
[5:48 PM] <ringmaster> Can a government/other organization tell who was commenting on my blog by examining Akismet records?
[5:48 PM] <io_error> hm, good question
[5:49 PM] <photomatt> ringmaster, we don't log it, so probably not
[5:49 PM] <io_error> ringmaster: only if they were spammers, then :)
[5:49 PM] <photomatt> they would probably go to your host or network provider before akismet
[5:49 PM] <photomatt> (I hope)
[5:49 PM] <io_error> photomatt: if you DO get any such requests, just turn over all the spam ;)
[5:49 PM] <ringmaster> I think these issues are important. I know they are to some clients of mine. I wouldn't be able to suggest using the service without knowing for sure.
[5:50 PM] <NeuroCide> haha, on the wp.com main page, under Hottest Blogs, there's flocksucks.wordpress.com
[5:50 PM] <skeltoac> botd doesn't lie :)
[5:50 PM] <io_error> photomatt: how is Hottest blogs determined?
[5:50 PM] <skeltoac> I can answer that. Traffic.
[5:51 PM] <io_error> I must not be getting any traffic, then
[5:51 PM] <photomatt> ringmaster, does that cover everything?
[5:51 PM] <Podz> photomatt, any news on wordpress.com support forums ?
[5:51 PM] <ringmaster> For now. ;)
[5:52 PM] * io_error hits Manage » Referers
[5:52 PM] <photomatt> Podz, no, but I'm open to suggestions
[5:52 PM] <photomatt> I'm worried about forums getting out of hand if we started them
[5:53 PM] |<-- gsnedders has left irc.freenode.net ()
[5:53 PM] <Podz> right now, if someone gets locked out, they have nowhere to go
[5:53 PM] <Podz> what do you mean 'getting out of hand'? deluged ?
[5:53 PM] <masquerade> photomatt, I think the rest of the world is worried about the current amount of needless wp.com posts on the wp.org forums, in case you didn't see that frustrated post on the forums list
[5:54 PM] <io_error> Germany, I may actually be required by law to inform my users that their
[5:54 PM] <io_error> data is sent to some other server (have to look into that). Just as a
[5:54 PM] <io_error> reminder that these issues shouldn't be treated lightly"
[5:54 PM] <photomatt> io_error, I saw that, unfortunately we'll never make everyone happy
[5:54 PM] <io_error> photomatt: did the lawyer review EU data privacy laws?
[5:54 PM] <photomatt> I imagine pingomatic would be in violation too, if that was true
[5:55 PM] <io_error> I doubt it, those are pretty much just public URIs
[5:55 PM] <photomatt> Podz, deluged
[5:56 PM] <photomatt> in WP comments are as public as ping data, with the exception of the password-protected ones, which I don't think anyone thinks is military-grade
[5:56 PM] <io_error> OK, my time has run out. Reminder to comment on the Bad Behavior 2 roadmap http://error.wordpress.com/2005/10/25/bad-behavior-2-roadmap/ and see you all later.
[5:56 PM] <Podz> photomatt, but that will build. It's all it can do. Then it will spill more into wp.org Install the sw, grab some helpers and launch :)
[5:56 PM] <--| io_error has left #wordpress-meetup ("I probably hit Ctrl-W by accident again.")
[5:56 PM] <photomatt> Podz, volunteering? ;)
[5:56 PM] <Podz> yep
[5:56 PM] <ringmaster> Woo hoo!
[5:57 PM] <photomatt> okay then, I'll make it a priority this week
[5:57 PM] <Podz> Date & Time. I'l be there :)
[5:57 PM] <Podz> remembering UK time would be neat for kickoff !
[5:57 PM] <photomatt> I'll email you :)
[5:57 PM] <Podz> cool
[5:58 PM] <photomatt> anything else before we break?
[5:58 PM] <stevecooley> Happy Halloween!
[5:58 PM] <ringmaster> Er... maybe: http://asymptomatic.net/2005/10/26/2069/wordpress-upgrade-documentation/
[5:59 PM] <NeuroCide> whats launching?
[5:59 PM] <Podz> photomatt, .com forums - for .com users only ?
[5:59 PM] <Podz> it'll reduce noise
[5:59 PM] <NeuroCide> oh the forums
[6:00 PM] <photomatt> ringmaster, saw that, it looks good!
[6:00 PM] <ringmaster> Cool. Maybe it's worth doing something with, then.
[6:01 PM] <davidhouse> ringmaster: nice.
[6:01 PM] <davidhouse> but... 'click here'? noooooo! :)
[6:01 PM] <ringmaster> Yeah, well, I was in a rush. :)
[6:03 PM] <davidhouse> i'm not so sure about the big-long-expansive-docs format though.
[6:03 PM] -->| NeuroCide5 (n=Rehan@host179-57-dsl.dols.net.pk) has joined #wordpress-meetup
[6:03 PM] <davidhouse> on the one hand, you have that WP has the reputation of being simple and easy to set up, and presenting a user with screens and screens of upgrade info will be daunting.
[6:03 PM] <davidhouse> on the other hand, users like to be guided through things, especially things that can break your blog.
[6:04 PM] <ringmaster> I'm emphasizing the latter point.
[6:04 PM] <Podz> davidhouse, how about I send you all the email I get for a week :) Just a week......
[6:04 PM] <davidhouse> more docs will also decrease forum requests
[6:04 PM] <Podz> docs = more complex forum requests. thats been shown over time
[6:04 PM] <photomatt> davidhouse, not true
[6:06 PM] <davidhouse> it'll at least mean that if people post dumbass forum requests we can just say rtfm and be done with it
[6:06 PM] <westi|coding> davidhouse: thats how you put people off though
[6:06 PM] =-= westi|coding is now known as westi
[6:07 PM] <photomatt> unfortunately some people will always go to support, no matter how good the docs
[6:07 PM] <photomatt> otherwise every corporation in the world would have no support staff, writing docs is much cheaper than paying people to do support
[6:07 PM] <davidhouse> well, i don't mean we'd actually say "You're an idiot, you should have read the upgrade docs more carefully", we could just say "For a detailed explanation of this problem, try [this page]"
[6:07 PM] <davidhouse> or at the very worst, copy-paste from docs
[6:07 PM] <ringmaster> This particular documentation isn't meant to solve generic problems, though. It would be specifically designed to walk a user through the upgrade/install process.
[6:08 PM] <Podz> davidhouse, people o n hackers
[6:08 PM] <ringmaster> And hopefully it would be linked in an obvious enough place that users would actually read it.
[6:08 PM] <Podz> don;t say rtf -php.net do they ?
[6:09 PM] <davidhouse> Podz, on hackers or on irc?
[6:09 PM] <Podz> davidhouse, don;t knock people who post. we all knew sod-all at one time :)
[6:09 PM] <davidhouse> if a php.net page explained someone's problem, i'd link to it
[6:09 PM] <Podz> and I'd explain it :)
[6:09 PM] <Podz> both are good
[6:09 PM] <davidhouse> in irc i'd probably explain but that's only because irc is more of a conversation and there's fewer support requests there
[6:10 PM] <davidhouse> podz, i'm not knocking people. the way you learn is by asking dumbass questions.
[6:11 PM] <Podz> we need forums, and every req is a genuine issue for the person posting. Thats what we cannot lose sight of - the day we do the rep of WP for helping people will fall.
[6:11 PM] <davidhouse> anyway, this is way off topic. upgrade docs++
[6:11 PM] <photomatt> very true
[6:11 PM] <photomatt> on that note, let's call the meetup to an end
[6:11 PM] <photomatt> </meetup>