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[5:05 PM] <photomatt_> <meetup
[5:05 PM] <photomatt_> P
[5:05 PM] <photomatt_> >
[5:06 PM] <tunicwriter> What he meant was <meetup> :P
[5:06 PM] <photomatt_> yes, what an auspicious start, with bad markup!
[5:06 PM] * skippy breaks out the meeting validator.
[5:06 PM] <SteveAgl> well we can end without closing tag :)
[5:06 PM] <SteveAgl> to make it full unvalidate
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[5:08 PM] * skippy waits in anticipation.
[5:08 PM] <photomatt_> first item up is the WP responsibilities page
[5:08 PM] <gsnedders> should we actaully do some meeting stuff?
[5:08 PM] <photomatt_> after the blog post it seems to have filled out nicely
[5:09 PM] <SteveAgl> yep lot of "subscribers"... what will be the next step now ?
[5:09 PM] <photomatt_> which is a mixed blessing
[5:09 PM] <photomatt_> coordinating everyone might be a job in and of itself
[5:09 PM] <photomatt_> what's the best way to allow everyone who signed up to contribute most efficiently?
[5:09 PM] <photomatt_> and not waste their time or ours
[5:10 PM] <ringmaster> Someone from each group should write out test cases.
[5:11 PM] <ringmaster> Wiki page per group?
[5:11 PM] <ringmaster> I know there are other people here with ideas.
[5:11 PM] <photomatt_> ringmaster: test cases, could you expand?
[5:11 PM] <ringmaster> Well, for instance XML-RPC.
[5:12 PM] <ringmaster> It would be helpful to know what needs to work to "pass" WordPress on that element in the list.
[5:12 PM] <photomatt_> okay
[5:12 PM] <photomatt_> any other ideas?
[5:13 PM] <tunicwriter> Perhaps "team leaders" to better organize people, so you're not doing it all yourself, Matt...
[5:13 PM] <ringmaster> Team leaders might be good, although the folks on the list have already somewhat self-organized.
[5:14 PM] <SteveAgl> team leaders should be instructed to yuse all the same tools, tracs for some stuff, hacker ML for other etc
[5:14 PM] <stevecooley> can we link to a page on the codex right from the "signup sheet" ?
[5:14 PM] <stevecooley> for each area
[5:15 PM] <photomatt_> totally, that'd make sense to me
[5:15 PM] <photomatt_> we should probably move this out of the User: space as well
[5:16 PM] <stevecooley> I mean, I can kind of see how it would be awesome to get this on paper, so to speak, but.. i can also seeing it getting out of hand and everything is listed on weird pages that don't make sense if you didn't come in through the help wanted sign up page
[5:16 PM] <stevecooley> right, ok
[5:16 PM] <stevecooley> yeah, what you said
[5:16 PM] <ringmaster> A single person should be appointed to create all of those pages so they're consistent.
[5:17 PM] <ringmaster> Or at least to coordinate their creation.
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[5:17 PM] <photomatt_> okay, sounds like a good start
[5:17 PM] <photomatt_> any other ideas on that topic?
[5:17 PM] <MichaelH> I'll be happy to create the pages.
[5:18 PM] <ringmaster> I nominate HichaelH.
[5:18 PM] <stevecooley> I'd be happy if Michael H made the pages
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[5:18 PM] <MichaelH> How bout under something like Testing/XML-RPC??
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[5:19 PM] <SteveAgl_> shhit
[5:19 PM] <Pir8> ok im heading to the local bar, going to have an extra pint in celebration of WP BDay
[5:19 PM] <SteveAgl_> got disconnected
[5:19 PM] <Pir8> w00t
[5:19 PM] <Pir8> Long live WP
[5:20 PM] <SteveAgl_> what did i miss ?
[5:20 PM] <skippy> not much, SteveAgl
[5:20 PM] <photomatt_> SteveAgl: check out the logs when things are done
[5:20 PM] <SteveAgl_> ok i'll check log tomorrow :)
[5:21 PM] <photomatt_> next up, someone suggested a paper be submitted to OSCON
[5:21 PM] <photomatt_> anyone planning on going?
[5:21 PM] <skippy> I'd love to go.
[5:21 PM] <skippy> I'd love to present.
[5:21 PM] <ringmaster> I'd love to sit in the audience and heckle.
[5:21 PM] <photomatt_> I'm very likely going this year
[5:21 PM] <Pir8> I'd be interested, good public speaker!
[5:21 PM] <photomatt_> I've avoided past years because I think it's rediciously overpriced
[5:22 PM] <skippy> i agree about the prices
[5:22 PM] <photomatt_> but if you're presenting, it's free!
[5:22 PM] <Pir8> dont they have any sort of discounts for OS projects/undertakings ?
[5:22 PM] <shep> where is OSCON?
[5:22 PM] <skippy> shep: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2006/create/e_sess/
[5:22 PM] <Pir8> gone, will check logs later tonight
[5:22 PM] <masquerade> photomatt_, how much is it anyways?
[5:22 PM] <Pir8> have a good one folks.
[5:23 PM] <shep> if podz speaks, i will go and heckle.... errr.. listen
[5:24 PM] <photomatt_> I don't remember the exact price, over 1k
[5:25 PM] <shep> HOLY CRAP
[5:25 PM] <shep> sorry...
[5:25 PM] <skippy> it's definitely not for the casual attendee.
[5:25 PM] * masquerade scratches that off the list of conferences he's interested in attending this year
[5:25 PM] <shep> that's like 1/30 of my salary as a teacher
[5:26 PM] <skippy> but you get to rub shoulders with RMS and ESR, and listen to CmdTaco and Hemos pontificate about how sublime they are!
[5:26 PM] <shep> probably more like 1/28th
[5:26 PM] <skippy> photomatt_ were you planning on submitting a formal presentation, or just being a regular attendee?
[5:26 PM] <photomatt_> I think it's closer to 1800
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[5:26 PM] <photomatt_> skippy: I scored a pass from a friend
[5:27 PM] <skippy> alrighty.
[5:27 PM] <photomatt_> not planning on doing any presentations
[5:27 PM] * masquerade mugs photomatt
[5:27 PM] <photomatt_> if anyone is planning on submitting a WP presentation, I'd be happy to help them out however I can
[5:27 PM] <skippy> I may submit a proposal.
[5:27 PM] <photomatt_> and I would highly encourage folks here to do so
[5:29 PM] <skippy> next item?
[5:29 PM] <shep> if you need jokes for the presentation, i'm here
[5:29 PM] <shep> i've got a bag full of In Soviet Russia jokes :P
[5:30 PM] <photomatt_> next topic is changing the wp-testers welcome email
[5:30 PM] <masquerade> +1387529384572394853478
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[5:30 PM] <skeltoac> Any other dissenters? :-P
[5:30 PM] * ringmaster smaks skeltoac for even asking.
[5:31 PM] <SteveAgl_> yep the links for download nigtly need to be updated...
[5:32 PM] <photomatt_> okay
[5:33 PM] <photomatt_> next up
[5:33 PM] <photomatt_> WP 2.0.1 release date
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[5:34 PM] =-= SteveAgl_ is now known as SteveAgl
[5:34 PM] <SteveAgl> you planned the 28
[5:34 PM] <skippy> the day before the day after tomorrow?
[5:34 PM] <SteveAgl> there is only my ticket left...
[5:34 PM] <SteveAgl> and looks like only my provider has it
[5:35 PM] [INFO] Chatzilla 0.9.69.3 [Firefox 1.0.7/20050915]
[5:35 PM] [INFO] Please visit the ChatZilla homepage at <http://www.mozilla.org/projects/rt-messaging/chatzilla/> for more information.
[5:35 PM] <SteveAgl> no one else had problmes with suexec and uploads
[5:35 PM] <photomatt_> the version was bumped to 2.0.1-RC1 yesterday
[5:35 PM] <skippy> has a 2.01 release candidate undergone comprehensive testing, to ensure that all the documented functionality works as documented?
[5:35 PM] <skippy> ah
[5:35 PM] <SteveAgl> and i' not sure Ryan well sort it off soon
[5:35 PM] <photomatt_> I'll be making a download available later today
[5:36 PM] <photomatt_> skippy: that's a little misleading
[5:36 PM] <Podz> photomatt - through the forums ? lists ?
[5:37 PM] <photomatt_> historically our biggest problems aren't with things that don't work for the developer, it's workarounds for various environments
[5:39 PM] <skippy> so, perhaps a few dedicated testing environments, using the silly settings employed by hosting companies, would be of value?
[5:39 PM] <skippy> I could probably host one such environment.
[5:39 PM] <photomatt_> anyway an email will be sent to wp-testers, and barring any major problems a release can be done in a few days
[5:39 PM] <skippy> if someone can prepare a checklist of common tasks that need to be verified, I could work through that.
[5:40 PM] <ringmaster> We need that list on Codex.
[5:40 PM] <ringmaster> ...as part of the testing stuff.
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[5:41 PM] <photomatt_> any volunteers for such a list?
[5:41 PM] <photomatt_> to create such a list, rather
[5:42 PM] <ringmaster> Someone create it and post it to testers, and we can all add to it?
[5:42 PM] <ringmaster> A blank page, even?
[5:42 PM] <skippy> whatever we create should be expanded by the people who signed up on the responsibilities page. so this should be the framework from which they begin their work
[5:43 PM] <Podz> if you want items for the list - just follow the forums very closely indeed next week. that's your best method - it's real world examples
[5:44 PM] <photomatt_> I'm skeptical about the effectiveness of a list like that myself, but if someone wants to try it, go for it
[5:44 PM] <photomatt_> it seems like everyone wants someone else to do it
[5:45 PM] <ringmaster> I'm in Codex right now creating a base page.
[5:45 PM] <Podz> a testing list ?
[5:45 PM] <SteveAgl> i think it's impossible to have loca test environmnte right reproducing hoster ones... ofr thee 3 or 4 major used in Italy i'm going to have real account on each of them and test it
[5:45 PM] <Podz> photomatt - what list do you mean ?
[5:45 PM] <skippy> photomatt_ : I'm willing to work though a list testing WP functionality in an intentionally crippled environment. I do not know enough about the problems that arise from such envrionments to create the checklist myself.
[5:47 PM] <photomatt_> Podz: I mean that we'll have more trouble from things we can't or don't anticipate than things we already do
[5:47 PM] <photomatt_> the list will be always be backwards-facing, or so verbose as to be useless
[5:47 PM] <photomatt_> IMO
[5:48 PM] <Podz> photomatt - I'm just saying that if coders follow the release in the forums, they are best placed to work out testing for the future versions.
[5:48 PM] <skeltoac> Podz: from a coder, thank you for the advice :-)
[5:49 PM] <ringmaster> What might be useful is having a list of things that we know break under certain conditions, say safe_mode, and then after we fix those things, test them under other strange circumstances/platforms.
[5:49 PM] <photomatt_> Podz: that I would agree with
[5:50 PM] <Podz> it's better than relying on 2 lines from me on a wednesday evening
[5:53 PM] <--| skippy has left #wordpress-meetup ("Free as in Puppies!")
[5:54 PM] <SteveAgl> i think we can't ever have a full list of strange environment to test... the variables are too much, we should relay only on real cases... we got few new poblem every week here in italy where practically 90% use 3 hosters
[5:54 PM] <SteveAgl> but smaller ones are so much that it's impossible to have testbed for alls
[5:55 PM] <mumbles> how about just knocking out thing sthat are known to go wrong like modreright stuff
[5:55 PM] <mumbles> or strange home paths
[5:55 PM] <mumbles> dont know much about hosting
[5:56 PM] <photomatt_> true, maybe a list of best practices
[5:56 PM] <photomatt_> would be useful for WP and other projects as well
[5:56 PM] <photomatt_> like DIRECTORY_SEPARATOR, the _SERVER vars, status codes, redirects
[5:57 PM] <photomatt_> fopen, etc
[5:57 PM] <photomatt_> all of them cause problems
[5:57 PM] <SteveAgl> and a list fo special thing to do to installa and works WP with provider XYZ
[5:57 PM] <SteveAgl> thereis any chanche to have a test for this stuff during WP install procedure?
[5:58 PM] <SteveAgl> Like Podz proposed on hackes yesterday...
[5:58 PM] <SteveAgl> a warinig that say huston we got a problem.. and a link to a solution page for common stuff
[5:59 PM] <photomatt_> hmm
[5:59 PM] <photomatt_> we could make it a crusade
[5:59 PM] <photomatt_> have a stand-alone "Host Suckage Report"
[6:00 PM] <ringmaster> Amen.
[6:00 PM] <photomatt_> that runs a series of tests and grades them A-F while detailing the problems
[6:00 PM] <photomatt_> encourage people to use it when they buy an account, and cancel it if they don't do well
[6:00 PM] <skeltoac> The only way to know the "problem environments" is to run WP on them. The only way to do that is to have more testers. If nobody with XYZ hosting tests before release, we won't know about their problems until it's too late. Somehow we need to make the nightlies more popular. The crux has always been the nightmare of supporting non-devs who run nightlies.
[6:00 PM] <photomatt_> and pimp hosts who publicize their own repors
[6:00 PM] <photomatt_> *reports
[6:01 PM] <photomatt_> skeltoac: should the nightlies be more popular, or just beta/rc releases?
[6:01 PM] <photomatt_> I don't think nightlies, which are sometimes broken just as a course of development, are the best way to go
[6:01 PM] <photomatt_> when we do a beta/rc we're saying "we've fix all/most of the stuff we know about"
[6:01 PM] <skeltoac> Considering the extreme prejudice with which we tend to rush through Beta/RC, I'd say nightlies.
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[6:02 PM] <Podz> use svn. then move to nightlies and have a forum for that before the RC stuff. after release go back to svn ?
[6:02 PM] <SteveAgl> maybe this will work for USA.. in Italy people wil buy account and then think about having WP etc... and cause subscription is always for one years on cheaper hosting.. or we give them a solution or they switch to something else
[6:04 PM] <Podz> part of the reason nightlies are not liked in the forum is that people who should not d/l do so. The other significant reason is the lack of support for people because the majority of forum helpers do not code. So we have the worst of both
[6:05 PM] <photomatt_> alright, so let's not encourage nightlies any more than we already do
[6:05 PM] <Podz> it's been suggested before - have a link to the nghtlies but have big huge warnings
[6:07 PM] <skeltoac> Okay, say we encourage people to become testers, join wp-testers and help out more often. You're then indirectly encouraging use of nightlies.
[6:08 PM] <photomatt_> sure, but they're told the only support for them is on wp-testers, not the forums
[6:08 PM] <skeltoac> The testers list has to grow and we all know that new testers bring confusion to the community. They get better over time and become an asset.
[6:08 PM] <skeltoac> So yes, let's promote wp-testers.
[6:09 PM] <skeltoac> Some great bugs have come out of wp-testers in the past month.
[6:09 PM] <photomatt_> http://wordpress.org/download/nightly/
[6:09 PM] <photomatt_> I think that's enough promotion
[6:11 PM] <SteveAgl> maybe a post to the blog about that would be nice... having interested people joining like for the WordPress_Responsibilities
[6:12 PM] <photomatt_> I'll give it some thought
[6:12 PM] <photomatt_> any other topics for the meetup?
[6:12 PM] <ringmaster> I've got a version of "Chew", a Planet-like WordPress re-feeder plugin, running at http://planet.owenw.com. Aside form an issue that I think is related to Bad Behavior, and the theme, it seems to be working. Note the cool categories.
[6:12 PM] <mumbles> how goes the wp merchondise ?
[6:12 PM] <ringmaster> So... Is there a WP.org WP theme somewhere, or will I be writing that, too?
[6:12 PM] <mumbles> merchodise
[6:13 PM] <mumbles> ok my spellings gone again
[6:13 PM] <mumbles> and the donating to wp
[6:14 PM] <skeltoac> Who is responsible for the WP shwag on cafepress? Would a link to that from wp.org benefit the community in any way?
[6:14 PM] <photomatt_> ringmaster: can you turn off pingbacks on that site?
[6:15 PM] <photomatt_> I've been getting a few
[6:15 PM] <ringmaster> phootmatt_: Yeah, sorry about that. I didn't realize it was doing it until too late.
[6:15 PM] <photomatt_> ringmaster: also items seem to have their own permalinks
[6:15 PM] <photomatt_> generally planet type sites always send the permalink back to the original site
[6:16 PM] <ringmaster> photomatt_: In a new theme, a meta field will be echoed to create the external permalink.
[6:16 PM] <photomatt_> don't worry about a WP theme, I can do that part when we switch over planet.wordpress.org
[6:16 PM] <photomatt_> is this using feedwordpress or something different?
[6:16 PM] <ringmaster> Something different.
[6:16 PM] <photomatt_> why?
[6:16 PM] <photomatt_> will the external permalink be used in the RSS feed as well? where does the GUID come from?
[6:17 PM] <ringmaster> Because I'm a glutton and enjoy al the extra work.
[6:17 PM] <ringmaster> The GUID should come from the external feed.
[6:17 PM] <photomatt_> how are new sources added/removed?
[6:17 PM] <ringmaster> You add *users*.
[6:18 PM] <photomatt_> another nice aspect of feedWP is you can have moderated sources, so some feeds could go in directly but some may need to have items approved first
[6:18 PM] <photomatt_> ringmaster: users?
[6:19 PM] <ringmaster> Yes, you create a user for each feed. A new form field on the create user form accepts a feed URL.
[6:20 PM] <ringmaster> It can leverage the built-in caps stuff for moderation, etc.
[6:22 PM] <ringmaster> And you can use an author permalink to sift out individual site feeds from the whole site.
[6:22 PM] <photomatt_> okay
[6:22 PM] <photomatt_> I like that
[6:23 PM] <photomatt_> what's left to do?
[6:23 PM] <ringmaster> Uh, I need to figure out why a couple of feeds aren't loading. I think it's Bad Behavior blocking the RSS library.
[6:23 PM] <ringmaster> Then the theme to output, and anything else you think you might want.
[6:25 PM] <photomatt_> just the things I mentioned above
[6:25 PM] <photomatt_> a list of the feeds and their feed URLs would be nice
[6:25 PM] <photomatt_> OPML output of the same
[6:25 PM] <photomatt_> (which you get for free by using the links manager)
[6:25 PM] <ringmaster> Hmm...
[6:26 PM] <ringmaster> All that seems easy enough. I'll mess with it some more. Hopefully have something for you by, next meetup?
[6:29 PM] <photomatt_> that'd be awesome, thanks for your work on this
[6:29 PM] <photomatt_> well my battery is winding down, so let's wrap this up
[6:30 PM] <photomatt_> happy WP birthday everyone!
[6:30 PM] <ringmaster> Woo-hoo!
[6:30 PM] <photomatt_> here's to three more years
[6:30 PM] <photomatt_> hopefully it will be as hard to imagine where we'll be then as it was three years ago to imagine where things are now
[6:31 PM] <skeltoac> *party hat*
[6:32 PM] <mikelittle> I'd drink to that
[6:32 PM] <mikelittle> ... if I drank
[6:33 PM] <SteveAgl> happy WP Bday...
[6:33 PM] <SteveAgl> we can close meetup then? bed it's calling me so bad... ;)
[6:33 PM] |<-- ringmaster has left irc.freenode.net ("Find me at http://asymptomatic.net, where I remain ambivalent.")
[6:34 PM] <photomatt_> </meetup>