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IRC Meetups/2005/July/July06RawLog

Jul 06 16:01:12 <photomatt> Alright let's get started
Jul 06 16:01:16 * h0bbel (h0bbel@h0bbel-bronze-pdpc.gallery) has joined #WordPress-Meetup
Jul 06 16:01:31 <relle> I'll do the raw log, if the electricity holds.
Jul 06 16:01:31 * Emory (~Maynard1@adsl-69-154-19-134.dsl.ksc2mo.swbell.net) has joined #WordPress-Meetup
Jul 06 16:01:53 <relle> After effects of the Tropical Storm.
Jul 06 16:02:00 * Emory has quit (Client Quit)
Jul 06 16:02:24 <photomatt> ouch
Jul 06 16:02:30 <relle> no kidding.
Jul 06 16:02:36 <photomatt> let's try to keep this one shorter than last time, went a little over
Jul 06 16:02:47 <relle> From Photomatt's site (http://photomatt.net/2005/06/16/tons-of-plugins/): The WP-Plugins.org developer plugin repository now has over 300 registered plugins. Time to get that directory going! Status?
Jul 06 16:02:53 <photomatt> if relle's electricity goes out we can all talk about her while she's gone
Jul 06 16:03:05 <relle> you do anyway.
Jul 06 16:03:06 <relle> ;-)
Jul 06 16:03:27 <photomatt> No change in the directory
Jul 06 16:03:35 <relle> But it is going to happen?
Jul 06 16:03:39 <photomatt> yep
Jul 06 16:03:47 <relle> Hooking Forum and Codex together (skippy?) Status?
Jul 06 16:03:47 <relle> * a quick-link syntax would be divine: [[Template Tag]] or <codex Template Tag />
Jul 06 16:03:47 <relle> * Common user database may be possible when bbPress shifts to more flexible user storage method.
Jul 06 16:04:13 <skippy> I approached MDAwaffe. He said he'd work on it.
Jul 06 16:04:28 * Firas (~chatzilla@c-24-60-209-166.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #wordpress-meetup
Jul 06 16:04:32 <mdawaffe> It's essentially done on the bbPress side
Jul 06 16:04:46 <mdawaffe> I know nothing about the mediawiki side
Jul 06 16:05:01 <robla> I can help on the mediawiki side
Jul 06 16:05:07 <mdawaffe> the quick link thing I sent off to photomatt
Jul 06 16:05:07 <photomatt> so /support is ready to be upgraded with the work mdawaffe did
Jul 06 16:05:20 <photomatt> we can drop his quick link thing in as a plugin
Jul 06 16:05:42 <skippy> we don't really need anything on the mediawiki side, do we? Just a filter in bbpress converting The_Loop to <a href="http://codex.wordpress.org/The_Loop">The_Loop</a>
Jul 06 16:06:11 <mdawaffe> skippy: I meant the database stuff
Jul 06 16:06:19 <skippy> oh.
Jul 06 16:06:20 <mdawaffe> re: connecting the user accounts
Jul 06 16:06:35 <relle> So there are two issues?
Jul 06 16:06:41 <mdawaffe> relle: yes
Jul 06 16:06:44 <mdawaffe> quicklink - check
Jul 06 16:06:45 <relle> Hooking links to the Codex and hooking memberse.
Jul 06 16:06:50 <photomatt> robla: you can write a mediawiki plugin to auth against the forum user database?
Jul 06 16:06:54 <mdawaffe> common user db - half check
Jul 06 16:06:59 * ryanduff (~ryan@pcp09614033pcs.hershy01.pa.comcast.net) has joined #wordpress-meetup
Jul 06 16:07:05 <mdawaffe> robla: the bbPress db is specified http://bbpress.automattic.com/file/trunk/bb-admin/upgrade-schema.php
Jul 06 16:07:09 <robla> photomatt: I can give it a shot
Jul 06 16:07:12 <ryanduff> afternoon everybody, am i late?
Jul 06 16:07:19 <mdawaffe> ryanduff: not much :)
Jul 06 16:07:24 <robla> mdawaffe: that was going to be my next question...thanks!
Jul 06 16:07:34 <photomatt> it's identical to WP now, so if we get that working WP and mediawiki integration will be much easier too
Jul 06 16:08:31 <mdawaffe> WP has a few more fields in the user table than does bb
Jul 06 16:09:15 <mdawaffe> but if bb needs to be changed, we can talk about that later
Jul 06 16:09:54 <robla> does bb have the same concept of user levels as wp?
Jul 06 16:10:13 <mdawaffe> no - and that's a hard question too :)
Jul 06 16:10:22 <mdawaffe> (as WP's system is changing in the next release_
Jul 06 16:11:01 <photomatt> yep
Jul 06 16:11:04 <photomatt> hard to say
Jul 06 16:11:17 <mdawaffe> for the integration, though, I imagine mediawiki should stick to its own user hierarchy system
Jul 06 16:11:39 <photomatt> in the interest of keeping things moving: New Page for Fundraising and Events - sign up and ideas
Jul 06 16:11:42 <mdawaffe> but I don't know anything about anything
Jul 06 16:11:47 <robla> mediawiki has a few different types of roles that would need to be assigned to bb users
Jul 06 16:11:58 <mdawaffe> robla: PM?
Jul 06 16:12:34 <robla> k...moving on
Jul 06 16:12:37 <Firas> relle, any thing about that?
Jul 06 16:12:38 <photomatt> sign up on the fundraising page if you're interested
Jul 06 16:12:44 <photomatt> http://codex.wordpress.org/Fundraising_and_Promotions
Jul 06 16:12:52 <relle> Yes.
Jul 06 16:12:55 <relle> SIGN UP
Jul 06 16:13:00 <relle> We're going to start recruting on the forum.
Jul 06 16:13:02 <relle> Get involved.
Jul 06 16:13:04 <relle> need ideas.
Jul 06 16:13:07 <relle> That's it.
Jul 06 16:13:25 <Firas> # Backup Week: July 23-30 News release out this week! See: WordPress Backups. Need help promoting the event. Please sign up to help.
Jul 06 16:13:26 <ryanduff> we'll call it relle's army :P
Jul 06 16:13:30 <Firas> lol
Jul 06 16:13:42 <relle> Podz is handling the docs and things are coming together.
Jul 06 16:13:46 <relle> We need help with the PR.
Jul 06 16:13:48 <ryanduff> hopefully the recruitment rates will be better than the us army
Jul 06 16:13:48 <relle> Sign up.
Jul 06 16:13:51 <Firas> relle's legions of the undead
Jul 06 16:14:08 <relle> We will be posting an announcement all over the place and asking you all to help spread the word.
Jul 06 16:14:12 <photomatt> relle: is something about that going to be in the weekly roundup?
Jul 06 16:14:17 <photomatt> or as its own post?
Jul 06 16:14:18 <relle> yes
Jul 06 16:14:21 <relle> in it's own post
Jul 06 16:14:22 <Podz> the docs are done - it's the images in codex to sort
Jul 06 16:14:30 <relle> We will also be starting a Backup Sob Story thread on the forum next week
Jul 06 16:14:41 <relle> So if you have a sob story about losing your backups or NOT backing up...
Jul 06 16:14:42 <relle> get ready.
Jul 06 16:14:49 <relle> We'll post a note about it via the email lists.
Jul 06 16:14:51 <ryanduff> already got mine in
Jul 06 16:14:55 <relle> It's a great one.
Jul 06 16:14:58 <Firas> ryanduff's is horrid
Jul 06 16:15:03 <relle> I've had three crashes in three weeks.
Jul 06 16:15:05 <relle> On two machines.
Jul 06 16:15:10 <Firas> # Install WordPress for a Friend - Status?
Jul 06 16:15:40 <Podz> need friend
Jul 06 16:15:53 <photomatt> need friends?
Jul 06 16:15:54 <h0bbel> Ha!
Jul 06 16:15:57 * h0bbel has two installs :)
Jul 06 16:16:20 <Podz> heh
Jul 06 16:16:36 <relle> photomatt: you decide on a "word"?
Jul 06 16:16:56 <photomatt> wordsmith
Jul 06 16:17:00 <relle> and a method?
Jul 06 16:17:17 <photomatt> the method will be like this
Jul 06 16:17:21 <alexsmith> Hi :)
Jul 06 16:17:35 <photomatt> <a href="http://example.com" rel="wordsmith">Joe Example</a>
Jul 06 16:17:43 <Firas> I think you just need to join a bunch of people who want wp installed with a bunch of people wh can install it..
Jul 06 16:18:13 <relle> scoreboard?
Jul 06 16:19:00 <photomatt> now two things are needed
Jul 06 16:19:06 <photomatt> well like an extension
Jul 06 16:19:16 <photomatt> bbpress needs to break up the profile page into several sub-tabs
Jul 06 16:19:22 <mdawaffe> photomatt: will there be a complementary value for the other direction "wordsmote" or something
Jul 06 16:19:36 <photomatt> mdawaffe: no because that's gameable
Jul 06 16:19:43 <mdawaffe> ah - fact
Jul 06 16:19:56 <photomatt> then we can have a plugin to add a tab for "people this person set up wordpress for"
Jul 06 16:20:28 <photomatt> finally we'll need a weekly spider to spider the homepage URLs from the support forums database and look for rel="wordsmith" links
Jul 06 16:20:49 <mdawaffe> re: bbPress - I have identically no time in the next week or so
Jul 06 16:21:00 <photomatt> and add them as a usermeta value to be exposed on the new interface
Jul 06 16:21:08 <photomatt> so let's consider the project on hold for a few weeks
Jul 06 16:21:19 <relle> Okay, so about "when" do you want to start this.
Jul 06 16:21:30 <relle> If I get a good team with fundraising and events together, we need pr time.
Jul 06 16:21:52 <relle> The actual thing, not the work on it.
Jul 06 16:21:56 <relle> This fall?
Jul 06 16:22:04 <relle> I assume it's a month or so of work and testing.
Jul 06 16:22:11 <photomatt> I think november would be a good timeframe
Jul 06 16:22:16 <relle> Cool.
Jul 06 16:22:38 <Firas> november: this is about the fundraising, not install wordpress for a friend, correct?
Jul 06 16:22:45 <relle> it's about install
Jul 06 16:22:49 <Firas> ok
Jul 06 16:23:01 <Firas> # Need to contact hosts on http://wordpress.org/hosting/ to see if they support mod_security (http://wordpress.org/development/2005/05/security-update/). Update http://wordpress.org/hosting/ accordingly.
Jul 06 16:23:02 <relle> helping the fundraising team get a plan in place.
Jul 06 16:23:25 <photomatt> I've sent an email to all the hosts, started to update the page with the hosts that have it
Jul 06 16:23:53 <photomatt> everyone has responded except bluehost so far
Jul 06 16:24:35 <relle> great.
Jul 06 16:24:47 <Firas> # WordPress Wednesday
Jul 06 16:25:02 <relle> This is the second one, right?
Jul 06 16:25:45 <Firas> how'd that work out, plan to continue it? you mentioned the other day about having a day where you could be on for chatting with plugin authors and stuff
Jul 06 16:26:01 <photomatt> I've been on most of the day
Jul 06 16:26:18 <photomatt> I didn't have anyone over at my place this week because I'm at work due to an upcoming deadline
Jul 06 16:26:45 <Firas> # Maintainer needed for the Theme Viewer
Jul 06 16:27:18 <Firas> did mikelittle decline?
Jul 06 16:27:32 <photomatt> this is different than the theme gardener
Jul 06 16:27:39 <Firas> oh.. right
Jul 06 16:27:41 <photomatt> which Mike has been doing (thanks!)
Jul 06 16:27:48 <mikelittle> Yeah. I can't commit to much time. The gardening I can do.
Jul 06 16:27:56 <photomatt> I think this is for http://themes.wordpress.net/
Jul 06 16:28:03 <Podz> shadow used to do this, but he is moving projects
Jul 06 16:28:06 <photomatt> which was maintained by shadow
Jul 06 16:28:07 <photomatt> yep
Jul 06 16:28:52 <Podz> anyone volunteering for it ?
Jul 06 16:28:58 <mdawaffe> maybe you should put out an APB from shadow on planet. or the dev blog
Jul 06 16:29:37 <Podz> it needs someone that can be trusted though ? given the access ?
Jul 06 16:29:49 <mdawaffe> rue
Jul 06 16:29:52 <mdawaffe> true
Jul 06 16:30:49 <photomatt> is alex's theme viewer up to date?
Jul 06 16:30:53 <photomatt> we could just link to that
Jul 06 16:31:12 <Podz> no idea
Jul 06 16:31:17 <relle> So this is in addition to extend/themes?
Jul 06 16:31:30 <relle> or just until that gets rocking?
Jul 06 16:32:05 <relle> macmanx handles the upkeep of themes and plugins on the Codex.
Jul 06 16:32:10 <relle> Might consider asking him.
Jul 06 16:32:11 <Podz> theme viwere
Jul 06 16:32:16 <Firas> extend/themes is just a limited showcase of sorts, the external resources like the theme viewer shot a whole bunch
Jul 06 16:32:20 <Firas> if i understand correctly
Jul 06 16:32:21 <Podz> bah - the viewer is more dynamic
Jul 06 16:32:25 <Firas> * show
Jul 06 16:32:50 <Podz> the aim is that the viewer shows all that are announced to the forums
Jul 06 16:33:12 <relle> And he currently transfers those to the codex.
Jul 06 16:33:26 <relle> photomatt: do you talk/know him?
Jul 06 16:33:27 <Podz> codex ? oh..
Jul 06 16:33:32 <relle> Or do you want me to ask?
Jul 06 16:33:36 <Podz> I talk to shadow
Jul 06 16:34:05 <Firas> with wp-plugins.net, you have an API, and the plugin makers are respnosible for adding their thing.. why is the burden reversed with the theme viewer?
Jul 06 16:34:14 <mikelittle> BTW, Alex's has about 100 less than themes.wordpress.net
Jul 06 16:35:28 <relle> photomatt?
Jul 06 16:35:30 <Podz> themes are uploaded fully
Jul 06 16:35:56 <photomatt> relle: I don't know him, you can ask
Jul 06 16:36:08 <relle> And I assume whoever is the maintainer has to "fix" themes that break or alert the theme author.
Jul 06 16:36:13 <Podz> no
Jul 06 16:36:15 <photomatt> someone doing that might as well help out mike with gardening
Jul 06 16:36:16 <relle> More maintenance than plugins.
Jul 06 16:36:21 <Podz> no fix
Jul 06 16:36:28 <Podz> authors fix their work
Jul 06 16:36:38 <relle> I agree with no fixing but the contact with the author to say "hey, it's borked" has to be done.
Jul 06 16:36:42 <relle> So that involves testing.
Jul 06 16:36:57 <Podz> upload, select. if bust, delete
Jul 06 16:37:08 <relle> Okay, so Podz, you talk to shadow and I'll talk to macmanx and we'll let photomatt know in a few days.
Jul 06 16:37:12 <Podz> they want the showcase, they worj
Jul 06 16:37:15 <relle> If the answers are no, then advertise.
Jul 06 16:37:20 <relle> I agree, but poop happens.
Jul 06 16:37:31 <Firas> # Could we have an official position statement on patches/upgrades ? This one of a small number of threads http://wordpress.org/support/topic/38000 and this issue can only get louder and more vociverous. An official statement would go a long way to helping.
Jul 06 16:37:37 <Podz> i have no reason to talk to shadow
Jul 06 16:37:42 <relle> k
Jul 06 16:38:21 <relle> BTW: Skippy and others have been working HARD on the Upgrading Wordpress doc on the Codex to make it as easy as possible, but the complaints are rising.
Jul 06 16:38:38 <photomatt> patches are totally useless to the average WP user
Jul 06 16:38:49 <photomatt> there are changed file lists for every release in the codex
Jul 06 16:38:56 <skippy> photomatt: that statement is being hotly contested in the forums.
Jul 06 16:39:01 <photomatt> if a user knows enough to want a patch, they should know enough to use SVN to create one
Jul 06 16:39:06 <skippy> that kind of broad pronouncement does nothing to address the concern
Jul 06 16:39:07 <relle> NOT TRUE.
Jul 06 16:39:28 <photomatt> we made the decision long ago to *not support* people modifying core files
Jul 06 16:39:29 <Firas> relle, do you know how to apply a patch?
Jul 06 16:39:41 <mdawaffe> photomatt: I think by "patch" people mean "a zip file with the four (or whatever) files that need to be overwritten"
Jul 06 16:39:41 <relle> Not with svn.
Jul 06 16:39:43 <photomatt> that's the whole point of plugins and themes
Jul 06 16:39:54 <relle> I just follow the instructions and delete the whole thing and put in the whole new thing.
Jul 06 16:40:07 <relle> Took me two hours to read through svn stuff and I still have no clue what to do.
Jul 06 16:40:12 <Firas> relle: no, 99% of people can't patch because they don't have shell access... pathces are a red herring
Jul 06 16:40:14 <relle> And I'm brilliant ;-)
Jul 06 16:40:20 * shep has reluctantly upgraded each and everytime, sees himself as knowing enough to know there should be a patch, but does not use SVN to create one
Jul 06 16:40:27 <relle> mdawaffe: smack on right.
Jul 06 16:41:01 <Podz> my thoughts: if you ask, you can make your own so shut up and do so. But, the asking is getting others thinking it could be easier, so can we have a statement on why / what ?
Jul 06 16:41:09 <photomatt> also, even if they don't have svn
Jul 06 16:41:16 <photomatt> it's so easy to install WP on the command line
Jul 06 16:41:19 <mikelittle> I agree with mdawaffe: when people refer to 'patch' they mean smaller parcel than whole application.
Jul 06 16:41:24 <mdawaffe> photomatt: (there's a semantic problem here in addition to the choice of what to provide)
Jul 06 16:41:37 <shep> agrees
Jul 06 16:41:39 <photomatt> they must have command line access to run a patch file anyway, so why can't they wget and tar xzvf
Jul 06 16:42:06 <Firas> I think what mdawaffe is saying that when they say patch, they mean a changed files archive
Jul 06 16:42:10 <Firas> not a diff
Jul 06 16:42:14 <photomatt> okay
Jul 06 16:42:23 <mdawaffe> Firas: yes
Jul 06 16:42:24 <photomatt> most releases, including security releases, touch > 5 files
Jul 06 16:42:29 <mikelittle> Plus, delete whole thing, upload new whole thing, where'd my plugin and themes go?
Jul 06 16:42:32 * westi|gone is now known as westi
Jul 06 16:42:40 * westi arrives ... a little late
Jul 06 16:42:41 <mdawaffe> (though I have no opinion on whether it's a good idea)
Jul 06 16:42:42 <shep> mdawaffe has the correct idea of what i think the general public thinks a patch is
Jul 06 16:43:06 <photomatt> I think rather than having separate upgrade instructions for every single possible combination of WP versions, we should stick to the one common base
Jul 06 16:43:15 <Firas> It seems like more of an issue because of the amount of serial releases that are being done on the 1.5 branch
Jul 06 16:43:21 <photomatt> which is http://codex.wordpress.org/Upgrading
Jul 06 16:43:35 <Firas> rather than a 'permanent' issue
Jul 06 16:43:48 <photomatt> making it different every time is harmful
Jul 06 16:43:56 <Podz> it'll happen when 1.6 comes out...
Jul 06 16:44:11 <shep> Podz: that's still like a year away
Jul 06 16:44:15 <photomatt> we basically have a 5 step process that should work for *any* upgrade
Jul 06 16:44:15 <shep> :P
Jul 06 16:44:17 <mdawaffe> mikelittle: the instructions say not to delete wp-content/ or wp-config.php
Jul 06 16:44:21 <relle> Okay, let me understand. The instructions are EACH time, open the "patch" zip file. See the files in there? Delete them from your files and replace them with these.
Jul 06 16:44:26 <relle> What's "different"?
Jul 06 16:44:33 <skippy> photomatt: it _doesn't_ work for every upgrade.
Jul 06 16:44:43 <Firas> relle: depends on what your current version is
Jul 06 16:44:49 <photomatt> relle: with 99% of releases, there may be dozens of files
Jul 06 16:45:02 <relle> But lately there hasn't, and people are whining, loudly and painfully.
Jul 06 16:45:03 <photomatt> was an exception to the rule
Jul 06 16:45:14 <photomatt> okay, well then the threads should be closed
Jul 06 16:45:19 <Podz> shep: I know, and they'll bitch again, which is why I asked for a statement rather than something just here. it gets very boring fending off the same stuff
Jul 06 16:45:24 <mdawaffe> relle: but what happens if someone is upgrading from to
Jul 06 16:45:24 <photomatt> people will whine no matter what we do
Jul 06 16:45:31 <mdawaffe> tow patches?
Jul 06 16:45:36 <photomatt> phpbb provides 9 different download links for every single release
Jul 06 16:45:40 <photomatt> or something crazy like that
Jul 06 16:45:51 <mdawaffe> sweet merciful crap
Jul 06 16:45:52 <Firas> photomatt: 18... 9 from their own servers, 9 from sourceforge :p
Jul 06 16:45:57 <h0bbel> If anyone cares what I mean, 1 download. Full enchillada *every* time.
Jul 06 16:46:15 <shep> i don't like enchilladas
Jul 06 16:46:22 <photomatt> mdawaffe: good point, we can't provide diff downloads for every possible combination
Jul 06 16:46:23 <Podz> I've not had one
Jul 06 16:46:25 <relle> Okay, so let's nuke this. Is there going to be a "self automated" upgrading system in future versions?
Jul 06 16:46:28 <Firas> ok so the issue here is
Jul 06 16:46:34 <Firas> whether to have a statement or not
Jul 06 16:46:38 <h0bbel> Supporting incremental updates, is not fun. Not fun at all.
Jul 06 16:46:41 <Firas> in the next 'dev blog post' thing
Jul 06 16:46:50 <shep> wait, huh?
Jul 06 16:46:56 <shep> relle
Jul 06 16:47:15 <photomatt> I think the issue is that certain people with certain issues get to a point where they can't be reasoned with
Jul 06 16:47:22 <photomatt> they will be loud and obnoxious no matter what we do
Jul 06 16:47:25 <shep> relle has a great question
Jul 06 16:47:25 <shep> Is there going to be a "self automated" upgrading system in future versions?
Jul 06 16:47:44 <photomatt> we haven't to recognize those situations and do what is best for the (often silent) majority
Jul 06 16:47:46 <Podz> photomatt:: true, but that's partly because they never get a dev answer
Jul 06 16:47:49 <relle> Kinda like what angsuman is doing.
Jul 06 16:48:27 <photomatt> so would me responding to that thread help?
Jul 06 16:48:34 <Firas> yes, very much
Jul 06 16:48:41 <Podz> a blog would be good
Jul 06 16:48:42 <photomatt> okay, then we just could have said that
Jul 06 16:48:45 <photomatt> I'll do that
Jul 06 16:48:48 <Podz> easier to find and link to
Jul 06 16:49:04 <photomatt> I can start a new thread, I don't think it warrants a blog post
Jul 06 16:49:07 <skippy> just say "what skippy said!" and link to my response to angsuman. =)
Jul 06 16:49:13 <photomatt> it's a niche issue
Jul 06 16:49:23 <h0bbel> A policy defining these questions (codex?) would be useful.
Jul 06 16:49:29 <photomatt> "Read from the Book of Skippy and contemplate."
Jul 06 16:49:39 * skippy Oms softly.
Jul 06 16:49:40 * shep votes for skippy for King of WP
Jul 06 16:49:52 <shep> wait, you don't vote for kings
Jul 06 16:49:55 * shep runs away
Jul 06 16:50:02 * westi votes for skippy
Jul 06 16:50:14 <photomatt> relle: there will be automated upgrades for WP in the future
Jul 06 16:50:15 <mdawaffe> "what is the sound of one a one sided diff?"
Jul 06 16:50:23 <relle> Whoa!!!!!
Jul 06 16:50:31 <relle> We all need to pause for a moment and contemplate that.
Jul 06 16:50:41 <mdawaffe> relle: I hear it's on tap for like next week
Jul 06 16:50:45 <photomatt> :-p
Jul 06 16:50:47 <shep> photomatt: doesn't that scare you?
Jul 06 16:50:51 * relle sighs with relief.
Jul 06 16:50:59 <westi> mdawaffe: no it's being released 2morrow!
Jul 06 16:51:03 <relle> YEAH
Jul 06 16:51:04 <mdawaffe> ha
Jul 06 16:51:05 <relle> Even better.
Jul 06 16:51:06 <photomatt> it will not be something in the WP download though
Jul 06 16:51:13 <photomatt> because it is pretty much impossible to do like that
Jul 06 16:51:16 <relle> Ah, now it gets complicated.
Jul 06 16:51:18 <shep> think of all the potential problems that an automated upgrade will cause
Jul 06 16:51:21 <photomatt> at least in a portable way
Jul 06 16:51:30 <photomatt> so what I can say right now is
Jul 06 16:51:31 <relle> Every other program I have offers auto upgrades.
Jul 06 16:51:40 <Firas> relle: not teh server side ones
Jul 06 16:51:49 <photomatt> we're working with hosting partners to make WP upgrades and integration easier
Jul 06 16:51:52 <relle> well, true.
Jul 06 16:52:16 <photomatt> and there will be a free WP hosted service
Jul 06 16:52:28 * mdawaffe blinks
Jul 06 16:52:35 * shep sneezes
Jul 06 16:53:01 <relle> Okay, so the answer to this issue is...it will get easier in the future.
Jul 06 16:53:07 <relle> Stay tuned.
Jul 06 16:53:18 <photomatt> well that brings us to the next two bullet points
Jul 06 16:53:31 <photomatt> (skipping multimedia for now)
Jul 06 16:53:48 <photomatt> WP MU has had some very significant development in the past few weeks
>>NOTE: Information edited pending public release of information << Jul 06 17:14:24 <photomatt> MU is just a wrapper around WP
Jul 06 17:14:48 <photomatt> which brings to the next point
Jul 06 17:14:57 <relle> photomatt, this is one of the reasons I think we need a good PR team put together.
Jul 06 17:15:03 <photomatt> agreed
Jul 06 17:15:16 <relle> Then this kind of thing would be handled "right".
Jul 06 17:15:19 <photomatt> MU is now advanced enough to a point we could offer official an free WP blogs
Jul 06 17:15:25 <relle> And it would be as a representative of the organization, not "you".
Jul 06 17:15:50 <relle> So email me the info on what you want to promote and when and I'll run it past the couple of folks on the new PR team list.
Jul 06 17:15:55 <relle> Let's see what we can do.
Jul 06 17:16:02 <photomatt> relle: will do
Jul 06 17:16:09 * michel_v (~tofu@michelv-00000002.user) has joined #wordpress-meetup
Jul 06 17:16:14 <shep> there is a PR team list?
Jul 06 17:16:22 <michel_v> forgot there was one
Jul 06 17:16:23 <relle> yes
Jul 06 17:16:31 <shep> ....
Jul 06 17:16:31 <relle> http://codex.wordpress.org/Fundraising_and_Promotions
Jul 06 17:16:38 <mdawaffe> photomatt: relle: something on the about page http://wordpress.org/about/ detailing what "the organization" is wrt wP inc etc might be nice too
Jul 06 17:16:47 <photomatt> is there an official maling list for it?
Jul 06 17:16:48 <shep> ah, that's why i didn't know about it
Jul 06 17:16:54 <shep> its on codex
Jul 06 17:16:54 <relle> I would like there to be one.
Jul 06 17:17:16 <relle> mdawaffe: that's on my things to do list.
Jul 06 17:17:33 <mdawaffe> relle: k
Jul 06 17:17:34 <relle> Along with "structure" since we now seem to have some.
Jul 06 17:17:43 <relle> Okay, it's getting late, photomatt, so can we move on.
Jul 06 17:17:45 <photomatt> so IMO it should be separate from wordpress.org, which is why it isn't called wordpress inc. or the wordpress foundation
Jul 06 17:17:50 <photomatt> it is getting late
Jul 06 17:18:15 <photomatt> # Expanding multi-media documentation
Jul 06 17:18:28 <photomatt> I just wanted to point people to screencasts
Jul 06 17:18:33 <mdawaffe> (I just meant a description of the foundation needs to be somewhere)
Jul 06 17:18:52 <relle> I'll work on that.
Jul 06 17:19:09 <photomatt> which is basically like a video of a computer screen, with audio narration
Jul 06 17:19:57 <relle> So photomatt: is this something we need to start working on in the forums and codex to be familiar with?
Jul 06 17:20:04 <photomatt> I think these could be a great addition to the existing images and such we have in the codex
Jul 06 17:20:28 <relle> And there are some?
Jul 06 17:20:28 <photomatt> relle: I think it can be a supplement
Jul 06 17:20:45 <relle> I think it's a great idea. Are there any?
Jul 06 17:20:47 <relle> yet?
Jul 06 17:21:30 <relle> And is there enough "space" on the Codex server for these things? Then can be big.
Jul 06 17:21:32 <shep> photomatt: what were you thinking for thse screencasts?
Jul 06 17:21:34 <relle> *they
Jul 06 17:21:43 <photomatt> relle: space is effectively unlimited
Jul 06 17:21:44 <Firas> shep: like a flash video of installation
Jul 06 17:21:45 <mikelittle> ok
Jul 06 17:21:50 <shep> right
Jul 06 17:21:53 <cyphase> WordPress MU..
Jul 06 17:21:54 <cyphase> hmm..
Jul 06 17:22:00 <shep> but i was meaning, what program to use?
Jul 06 17:22:18 <ryanduff> one of the screen capture ones
Jul 06 17:22:26 <photomatt> so there is one I know for Mac that the textdrive folks use
Jul 06 17:22:46 <photomatt> it's not free, but they may have extra licenses they can donate to us
Jul 06 17:22:47 <ryanduff> snagit will do a screen video capture that i think you can edit
Jul 06 17:23:05 <Firas> for windows, camtasia is the best, but it's expensive
Jul 06 17:23:08 <shep> there is also camstudio
Jul 06 17:23:18 <shep> camstudio is like camtasia, but free
Jul 06 17:23:53 <relle> Okay, so photomatt, can you or someone write up some info and email it to me or the codex docs list so we can look at it and figure out how to use it?
Jul 06 17:23:57 <relle> And we need to move on.
Jul 06 17:24:08 <photomatt> wow I was about to say maybe I could cover camtasia
Jul 06 17:24:14 <photomatt> but it's over $450
Jul 06 17:24:46 <Firas> so yeah, maybe the docs team can scout out good free ones
Jul 06 17:24:51 <shep> take a look at camstudio
Jul 06 17:24:53 <mikelittle> John Udwll has written some good articles about screencasting
Jul 06 17:24:54 <photomatt> relle: I'll send something to the docs list, we need to find the best programs
Jul 06 17:24:59 <mikelittle> *Udell
Jul 06 17:25:05 <Firas> # Providing Patches? - See for lively discussion http://wordpress.org/support/topic/38000
Jul 06 17:25:07 <Firas> this is done
Jul 06 17:25:13 <Firas> # Providing MD5's for downloads to allow for authenticity checks
Jul 06 17:25:15 <Firas> * Signing downloads
Jul 06 17:25:19 <photomatt> if the best thing is a commercial app, and a reasonable price, I'm happy to buy a copy or two for whoever is going to be making the screencasts
Jul 06 17:25:44 <relle> k
Jul 06 17:25:47 <Firas> since wp doesn't do mirrors, i'm not sure of the point of an md5 or signature
Jul 06 17:25:53 <photomatt> people have asked for MD5s before
Jul 06 17:25:59 <Firas> ah
Jul 06 17:26:00 <photomatt> but it comes up pretty rarely
Jul 06 17:26:06 <photomatt> maybe once every few montsh
Jul 06 17:26:23 <Firas> well, it's just generate hash and put it on the dl page somehwere..
Jul 06 17:26:43 <mdawaffe> photomatt: zips are generated automatically, yes?
Jul 06 17:26:46 <photomatt> yes
Jul 06 17:26:57 <photomatt> I'll look into incorporating it with our release workflow
Jul 06 17:27:05 <photomatt> official word is "we're looking into it"
Jul 06 17:27:41 <photomatt> it seems like the rest of the topics we've covered already
Jul 06 17:27:48 <photomatt> does anyone want to bring anything up before we close?
Jul 06 17:28:00 <Firas> ryanduff wanted to ask something about hooks?
Jul 06 17:28:11 <ryanduff> yes
Jul 06 17:28:14 <mdawaffe> ryanduff: update_usermeta() but there's no filter on it curretly
Jul 06 17:28:18 <relle> And just to know that the forums mailing list is rocking and Podz has great plans for it.
Jul 06 17:28:35 <ryanduff> will there be a way to add options to the user info page
Jul 06 17:28:39 <photomatt> I'll add a filter to update_usermeta
Jul 06 17:28:44 <ryanduff> or a meta part like on th epost pages
Jul 06 17:28:45 <mdawaffe> ryanduff: (I didn't mean to cut you off)
Jul 06 17:28:46 <Podz> when I return to the land of the living...
Jul 06 17:28:46 <photomatt> ryanduff: currently not planned
Jul 06 17:29:04 <photomatt> you can modify the user page like any WP page using output buffers and regex
Jul 06 17:29:22 <ryanduff> i was thinking certain plugins could find that useful to be able to add an option on users and enable/disable
Jul 06 17:29:39 <photomatt> that's doable through plugin option pages
Jul 06 17:29:44 <photomatt> they can use the update_usermeta() function
Jul 06 17:30:04 <ryanduff> for instance my plugin (contact form) could add a checkbox to allow a user to get email from the form, then i could build a list of possible recipients based on which users have that meta data set to yes
Jul 06 17:30:19 <photomatt> it's WP Wednesday, so I'll be on AIM at saxmatt02 for any dev questions and on IRC for a good bit as well
Jul 06 17:30:46 <photomatt> ryanduff: sounds like you would want a custom plugin options page that listed users and had a checkbox next to each
Jul 06 17:30:48 <photomatt> that's a cool idea too
Jul 06 17:30:53 <photomatt> re: the plugin
Jul 06 17:31:13 <Firas> photomatt: we have an options page in that plugin..
Jul 06 17:31:17 <Firas> he means by each user
Jul 06 17:31:21 <ryanduff> i could build it in to mine, but i thought something to add it to the user profile pages would benefit other plugins possibly
Jul 06 17:31:38 <photomatt> there is going to be a new option page in 1.6
Jul 06 17:31:44 <photomatt> for per-user options
Jul 06 17:31:48 <ryanduff> like how it lists email, aim, and other misc user info, to be able to add meta for certain plugins via the plugin
Jul 06 17:32:01 <photomatt> will have things like "[ ] use visual editing interface"
Jul 06 17:32:09 <Firas> cool
Jul 06 17:32:11 <ryanduff> photomatt: that would allow the user to deselect if he later decides he doesn't want to be on the list of possible recipients
Jul 06 17:32:18 <photomatt> ryanduff: what you'redescribing is better on the page that doesn't exist yet
Jul 06 17:32:28 <photomatt> rather than the profile page
Jul 06 17:32:32 <photomatt> which is for profile information, not options
Jul 06 17:32:47 <ryanduff> whatever, even better
Jul 06 17:33:06 <ryanduff> i don't care if it doesn't yet exist, just that its been thought about and planned for possible inclusion
Jul 06 17:33:18 <ryanduff> just something to think on with the usermeta stuff and the possiblities
Jul 06 17:33:43 <Firas> So todo: take care of the patch thread, write about donncha, find screencasting progs... meetup end?
Jul 06 17:34:00 <mdawaffe> mod_security
Jul 06 17:34:24 <photomatt> yep
Jul 06 17:34:36 <photomatt> </meetup>

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