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IRC Meetups/2005/July/July27RawLog

[17:31] <relle> Okay, are we ready?
[17:31] <Podz> don't we need matt ?
[17:31] <Firas> where's photomatt
[17:31] <relle> He'll be here when he gets here.
[17:31] <tunicwriter> Let's... wait a couple minutes, heh. No reason to jump the gun.
[17:31] <mdawaffe> ok (did someone ding him from #wordpress?)
[17:31] <Podz> agreed
[17:32] <relle> <meetup>
[17:32] <relle> I just got a note from Matt asking me to start the meeting without him.
[17:32] <tunicwriter> Well then that's completely different.
[17:32] <Firas> ok, so which ones can we pick off
[17:32] <relle> First, I call to order a group hug for the Forbes article.
[17:32] <Firas> this one "Fundraising and Events - WE NEED HELP - sign up and ideas"
[17:32] <relle> GROUP HUG
[17:32] <relle> GROUP HUG FIRST
[17:33] <relle> NOW
[17:33] <tunicwriter> Why not a group hump?
[17:33] <Firas> xoxo
[17:33] * relle hugs tunicwriter
[17:33] * tunicwriter humps relle
[17:33] * relle grabs mdawaffe and hugs him.
[17:33] * tunicwriter humps mdawaffe
[17:33] * mdawaffe considers "ass out" hug
[17:33] <relle> Forbes listed WordPress as Best Blogging Tool and Best Online Community!!!
[17:33] <PotterSys> whoa!
[17:33] <relle> Seriously. Everyone should be commended for this.
[17:34] <mdawaffe> booyah to us all
[17:34] <tunicwriter> http://forbes.com/bow/b2c/review.jhtml?id=7262 <-- In case no one got that
[17:34] <Jalenack> thank you, thank you :p
[17:34] <relle> We had no idea that Forbes was "spying" on us.
[17:34] <mdawaffe> three cheers for Jalenack!
[17:34] <relle> Kudos to all.
[17:34] <relle> Great job.
[17:34] <Jalenack> heh
[17:34] <tunicwriter> Hip hip... Booyousuck! Hip hip... Booyousuck! ... Hip hip... huzzah *cough*
[17:34] <relle> Okay, Firas - agenda?
[17:35] <Firas> it starts with " codex -> wp.org style integration: status? -- DavidHouse"
[17:35] <relle> Okay, david's not here. robla|afk
[17:35] <Jalenack> anyone know what their obscure question was?
[17:35] <relle> You know anything?
[17:35] <mdawaffe> ...he's... afk
[17:36] <relle> Okay, the Codex and Forum are "intergrating".
[17:36] <relle> Skippy, Robla and others are working on it.
[17:36] <relle> and I mean Inter-Grating.
[17:36] <mdawaffe> The style is different than the integration of the users, though
[17:36] <relle> Soon, if all goes well, they will be interconnected.
[17:36] <Jalenack> whoa
[17:36] <mdawaffe> but, yes, they're both being worked on, as far as i know
[17:36] <Jalenack> how, exactly?
[17:36] <relle> You will be able to move from one to the other seamlessly, if I understand it all right.
[17:37] <mdawaffe> Jalenack: through the magic of something we call "bbPress" and a ton of work by robla|afk
[17:37] <tunicwriter> Will the flower be gone?! :D
[17:37] <relle> mdawaffe: want to explain?
[17:37] <relle> yes
[17:37] <tunicwriter> Huzzah!
[17:37] <mdawaffe> I don't know anythign about it, really
[17:37] <Jalenack> brilliant
[17:37] <mdawaffe> just that bbPress makes it easy to do things like this
[17:37] <Jalenack> people_doing_work++
[17:37] <mdawaffe> the trick part is from mediawiki's side
[17:38] <mdawaffe> it's also easy, because if something needs to be improved in bb to make this happen, we can just do it :)
[17:38] <relle> Yeah, open source stuff.
[17:38] <mdawaffe> that's the entirety of my knowledge on the situation
[17:39] <Jalenack> is wp.org the only high profile site using bbPress?
[17:39] <relle> Exciting stuff.
[17:39] <mdawaffe> Jalenack: to my knowledge
[17:39] <Jalenack> alright
[17:39] <relle> Okay, next?
[17:39] <mdawaffe> there's a lot of people on the mailing list though (though it's pretty quiet)
[17:39] <tunicwriter> there's a mailing list? Heh.
[17:39] <mdawaffe> relle: next
[17:40] <mdawaffe> (tunicwriter yeah - I think a lot of folks are waiting for a first release)
[17:40] <relle> IRC Status (please read User:Morydd/IRC_Status_Ideas ) and comment. -- Morydd
[17:40] <relle> I just buzzed Morydd next door. Hopefully he will get in here.
[17:40] <mdawaffe> OT: tunicwriter, Jalenack http://lists.bbpress.org/mailman/listinfo/bbdev
[17:40] * robla|afk is now known as robla
[17:40] <relle> See: http://codex.wordpress.org/User:Morydd/IRC_Status_Ideas
[17:40] <relle> while we wait.
[17:41] <relle> Ah, robla, while we wait for morydd, can you tell us about the linking up of codex and forum?
[17:41] <robla> sure
[17:41] <michel_v> I'd be happy with the forbes article if: 1) Forbes's "best of web" image concept was still relevant, 2) they didn't call Parisist the worst Gothamist blog just because it's only available in French
[17:41] <robla> auth plugin is written
[17:42] <robla> should be ready for deployment
[17:42] <relle> And what will that do?
[17:42] <mdawaffe> robla: let me know if things can be made easier by tweaking bb
[17:42] <tunicwriter> michel_v: it's forbes, they're pompous ;P
[17:43] <mdawaffe> relle: it will mean forums users and codex users will be the same thing
[17:43] <robla> relle: it means that MediaWiki will check the bbpress database for credentialls
[17:43] <relle> so user name will cross.
[17:43] <mdawaffe> what robla said
[17:43] <robla> relle: yes, there'd need to be a merge of the user databases
[17:44] <Jalenack> sweet
[17:44] <relle> And linkability will improve between forum and codex, since the database will be similar/same?
[17:44] <Firas> no..
[17:44] <robla> only the credentials would be shared
[17:44] <michel_v> relle: think more about usability
[17:44] <relle> There was talk of creating shortcut links to codex articles in posts.
[17:44] <robla> it's a baby step toward full integration
[17:44] <Firas> ah, that's another thing
[17:44] <michel_v> that reduces the hassle of having to register _again_
[17:44] <Firas> the [[link]] thing
[17:45] <Jalenack> [[]]++
[17:45] <mdawaffe> relle: the link thing is in the works
[17:45] <relle> okay.
[17:45] <mdawaffe> frankly I don't know why it's not up yet
[17:45] <relle> robla: anything else that would help people understand this better?
[17:45] <mdawaffe> but it should be soon
[17:45] <Jalenack> dev blog announcement
[17:45] <robla> relle: I have a writeup on codex....just a sec and I'll get the link
[17:46] <mdawaffe> robla: do you have a plan for DB merging? collisions, case, ...
[17:46] <robla> http://codex.wordpress.org/User:RobLa/AuthPress_for_MediaWiki
[17:46] <mdawaffe> case could be an important issue with mediawiki
[17:46] <robla> mdawaffe: nope, that's in the open issues
[17:46] <mdawaffe> k
[17:47] <relle> And if you all haven't heard about it, Jalenack has a new plugin that adds a search bar to the Admin screen of WP sites.
[17:47] <relle> It's very cool.
[17:47] <Jalenack> http://blog.jalenack.com/archives/codex-search-plugin/ <--
[17:47] <relle> Searches Codex and Forum right from any page on the admin panels.
[17:47] <relle> Again, helping users FIND the information they need.
[17:47] <mdawaffe> and looks pretty too
[17:48] * Joins: rboren
[17:48] <Jalenack> there are a few small issues with it, then I think we'll be able to promote it a lot
[17:48] <robla> mdawaffe: logins are case insensitive with this plugin
[17:48] <tunicwriter> As pretty as me.
[17:48] * robla is a little behind in the conversation
[17:49] <Jalenack> I think owen was talking about making it completely localized.. searching the french codex and the french support forum for example
[17:49] <mdawaffe> robla: my forum name, for example, is mdawaffe, but mediwiki needs some CAPS in their usernames, yes?
[17:49] * mdawaffe doesn't know anything - he just rambles
[17:49] <robla> mdawaffe: correct
[17:50] <robla> in a stock MediaWiki install, the first letter of a username is capitalized, whether you request it or not
[17:50] <mdawaffe> ok - I'll let someone who knows best figure out if that's a problem or not, and, if it is, how to fix it
[17:51] <robla> is everyone on the wiki-tech mailing list who is interested in this conversation?
[17:52] <robla> the reason why I ask is that I don't hink we need to take everyone's time here, but I also don't get much feedback anywhere else
[17:53] <tunicwriter> Yeah, I think we talked this topic out here... What's the link for the mailing list, robla?
[17:53] <robla> http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wiki-tech
[17:53] <mdawaffe> check - moving on?
[17:53] * Joins: relle_
[17:54] <relle_> sorry about that.
[17:54] <tunicwriter> Any sign of Morydd?
[17:54] <relle_> http://codex.wordpress.org/User:Morydd/IRC_Status_Ideas
[17:54] <relle_> Anyone have any comments, input, suggestions on this?
[17:54] <tunicwriter> I like the bots idea
[17:55] <relle_> http://codex.wordpress.org/User:ringmaster/IRC_Voice is another one.
[17:55] <relle_> The bots information is great.
[17:55] <relle_> Got a link for that?
[17:56] <mdawaffe> the bots idea seems a very clever solution to me
[17:56] <relle_> be specific.
[17:56] <relle_> solution for what?
[17:56] <mdawaffe> the voice/no voice debate
[17:57] <relle_> ah.
[17:57] <mdawaffe> through a bot in there that knows people and can identify their "expertise"
[17:57] <relle_> good.
[17:57] <relle_> Anyone have anything to add to this issue?
[17:57] <mdawaffe> I still think, personally, it's unnecessary, but it sounds like it will appease many people
[17:58] <PotterSys> how new people in IRC will know about the bot?
[17:58] <PotterSys> (a message when arrives maybe)
[17:58] <tunicwriter> The topic
[17:58] <relle_> the header topic, I think.
[17:58] <Podz> I'd note here that in the forums the idea of any sort of label has stopped. The playing field is now level and will remain so.
[17:58] <mdawaffe> PotterSys: I think it should be open - everyone
[17:58] <relle_> Which is PACKED with information.
[17:59] <relle_> podz: so a decision has been made?
[17:59] <Podz> you said as much on the list. Matt is now as 'member' as I am. Skippy can choose on his return I guess.
[18:00] <Podz> I have said my thoughts more fully on that list. I just wanted this noted here for those that do not read the forum mailing list
[18:00] <relle_> I'm not in a position to make a decision, I've just been asked by people if a decision was made and it "sounded" like one on the forum mailing list, so we just needed to make sure for the record.
[18:00] <Podz> I've not been asked by anyone - but I stand by what I have said.
[18:01] <relle_> Okay, so everyone knows, when you sign in to the Forum, you become a member. And that everyone is a member and that there will be no differentiation between volunteers and members.
[18:01] <Podz> true
[18:01] <relle_> Except when you look at the new "pages" of comments on profiles and then you can use that to "judge" membership value. ;-)
[18:02] <relle_> Podz wins.
[18:02] <Podz> for heavens sake
[18:02] <relle_> hee hee
[18:02] <Podz> if stats do this, they will have to go
[18:02] <relle_> kidding.
[18:02] <relle_> Okay http://codex.wordpress.org/Fundraising_and_Promotions
[18:02] <Podz> I wish you were
[18:02] <relle_> We still need ideas and help.
[18:03] <relle_> We have a lot of things happening soon and we need help to coordinate those and to get more stuff going.
[18:03] <relle_> We'd like to have a fundraiser in the fall and we need bodies.
[18:03] <relle_> Please sign up and get involved.
[18:03] <Podz> Why is MU listed there ?
[18:03] <relle_> Because it is a part of the WordPress "package".
[18:03] <relle_> The organization's products.
[18:04] <relle_> The process of promoting WordPress is not much different from promoting MU.
[18:04] <mdawaffe> very different clientelle
[18:04] <relle_> Very similar, too.
[18:04] <relle_> The process of promotion is similar.
[18:04] <Podz> relle - the two are different. We do not and never have supported MU
[18:04] <mdawaffe> WP has always been designed for the user, MU has always been designed for the host
[18:05] <mdawaffe> so the promotion seems different to me
[18:05] <Podz> Has Matt made this connection  ?
[18:05] <relle_> He asked for help.
[18:05] <Podz> help for what ?
[18:05] <relle_> If he doesn't want the PR team to promote it, I'm sure we will hear about it.
[18:05] <relle_> We really need to get a good fundraiser going this fall.
[18:05] <Podz> that means he has not asked then ?
[18:06] <Podz> whatever
[18:06] <relle_> Matt asked.
[18:06] <relle_> It's hard to ask for money for a "free" product, so we need some fun ways of making it save to get people to "pay" and support.
[18:06] <relle_> So any ideas and help are welcome.
[18:06] <mdawaffe> Podz: to be fair - the forums have never supported (and shouldn't support) MU, but if the PR team and the community at large wants to promote it, that seems fine
[18:06] <Podz> true.. but then the support will alos be expected ..
[18:06] <relle_> The PR team promotes ALL things WordPress.
[18:07] <relle_> Not if the pr statements direct towards the mu forum.
[18:07] <relle_> And there will be cross over, with or without the PR team because of the name "WordPress" in the title.
[18:07] <mdawaffe> Podz: again - different clients - I don't think hosts will be bothered by PR telling them MU isn't supported on the WP forums
[18:07] <relle_> Back to fundraising, any quick ideas on that?
[18:08] <relle_> Besides the wet-WordPress-t-shirt contest.
[18:08] <relle_> ;-)
[18:10] <relle_> Okay, so everyone is still thinking about wet t-shirts.
[18:10] <relle_> Next: Development priorities and opportunities for volunteers
[18:10] <relle_> I think that Matt wanted to bring up the ideas from last week about recruiting volunteers for specific tasks.
[18:11] <relle_> Am I offline again?
[18:11] <relle_> Anyone there?
[18:11] * Quits: relle (Connection timed out�)
[18:11] <alphaoide> what are the tasks?
[18:11] <relle_> We need help with fundraising, and with Themes and a lot of things.
[18:11] <relle_> He's working on a list.
[18:12] * relle_ is now known as relle
[18:12] <relle> So we'll put this off until next week unless someone knows of some specifics?
[18:13] <Firas> yup
[18:13] <Firas> or until matt gets back
[18:13] <relle> next?
[18:13] <relle> IRC - How to deal with flooding in #wordpress in a more timely manner
[18:13] <Firas> IRC - How to deal with flooding in #wordpress in a more timely manner (re: pop, last night) -- Tunicwriter 21:21, 27 Jul 2005 (UTC)
[18:14] <relle> Okay, the channel got spammed with a porn freak last night.
[18:14] <relle> Firas: want to talk about it and explain what is needed?
[18:14] <Firas> hah, you weren't there for the fun part
[18:14] <relle> Details.
[18:14] <relle> so to speak.
[18:15] <Firas> it got flooded by an army of his bots after we ticked him off
[18:15] <Firas> anyway
[18:15] <relle> wonderful.
[18:15] <Firas> the only real way to deal with that is to give people ops
[18:15] <relle> How is that done?
[18:16] <Firas> matt tells the channel server, that when so and so asks for operator privileges, give it to them
[18:16] <Firas> then the op sets the channel to silence
[18:16] <Firas> until the bots go away
[18:16] <relle> So we need a list of volunteers who will take on operator privedlges when needed.
[18:17] <relle> ?
[18:17] <Firas> but hasn't matt being arguing against that for 4 weeks now
[18:17] <Podz> yes
[18:17] <relle> Well, I think security is a different issue than "levels"
[18:17] <Firas> i guess now we see a real need for it..
[18:17] <Podz> if it does not happen that often though, can't it just be seen as entertainment ? :)
[18:17] <Podz> It's not security - it's irc. It happens
[18:17] <Firas> Podz: it's harassment
[18:18] <Firas> people's clients and computers just froze
[18:18] <michel_v> or to call for the help of an irc admin
[18:18] <io_error> which could take a while
[18:18] <Firas> yeah, i'd be happy if they responded!
[18:18] <Firas> they never do
[18:18] <mdawaffe> I see an analogy here between spam on forums and pr0n on irc. moderators on forums and ops on irc
[18:18] <relle> I wouldn't say "never" but slow, sure.
[18:18] * mdawaffe guesses this has been pointed out already
[18:19] <io_error> if people are going to get ops, they should have some idea of what they're doing
[18:19] <Firas> look, nobody needs to stay opped/voiced
[18:19] <mdawaffe> Firas: ah - good point
[18:19] <Firas> but to have the option in a couple people is a wise choice
[18:20] <io_error> the usual method is to have ChanServ op you when needed, and then deop once whatever is over
[18:20] <Firas> yup
[18:20] <relle> So how to decide who?
[18:21] <relle> I think a request should be made, after outlining responsibilities, and 4 people get ops, so the channel is covered 24 hours.
[18:21] <io_error> I'd say maybe 3 or 4 people at most, to get 24 hour coverage
[18:21] <relle> They can come in and kick and turn the ops off when done.
[18:21] <relle> Like Podz does when he pulls out his big stick.
[18:21] <Firas> and they only take ops once in a couple months, ie, only wheen someone's being really naughty
[18:21] <relle> What say y'all?
[18:22] <io_error> This is so obvious, I'
[18:22] <io_error> I'm surprised it's even a matter of discussion :)
[18:22] <relle> Well, since there aren't any ops, it gets discussion.
[18:22] <relle> Anyone against?
[18:23] <relle> Okay, io_error, Firas, can you get with ringmaster and morydd and anyone else to come up with a responsiblity description and ask for volunteers.
[18:23] <relle> Then let Matt know what you've come up with so ops can be delegated.
[18:23] <relle> ?
[18:24] <Firas> well, that might all come to naught if matt still isn't into opping anyone else
[18:24] <io_error> Firas: what did he say about it?
[18:24] <relle> If you come up with a plan, and it doesn't make anyone "superior" to someone else, but gives security to the IRC, then I don't see how this can be argued.
[18:25] <relle> Let's give him the benefit of the doubt.
[18:25] <Firas> ok what's next
[18:26] <relle> Backup Week is on and we need help on the forums to talk it up.
[18:26] <relle> Please help with the discussions and bring up issues of backing up on the forum to help people REMEMBER to backup.
[18:26] <relle> Anyone have any other news, topics?
[18:27] <relle> Anything on Development?
[18:27] <relle> rboren: do you have any news/info on development stuff?
[18:27] <rboren> Here's our targets for 1.6:
[18:28] <rboren> Capabilities, Media Management, Import/Export, and one click caching.
[18:28] <rboren> Those are the big ones.
[18:28] <relle> explain some about capabilities and media management, please?
[18:29] <rboren> Capabilities replaces user levels. Owen did a nice writeup on them not too long ago.
[18:29] <rboren> Media management is better image handling, etc. We currently suck hard here.
[18:29] <relle> Will import/export now be on the admin panels?
[18:29] <relle> Or still run from files?
[18:30] <rboren> They will be on the admin panel.
[18:30] <relle> cool.
[18:30] <rboren> They will be more like plugins.
[18:30] <rboren> With some framework available to make them easier to write.
[18:31] <relle> sounds exciting.
[18:31] <Firas> relle: i see matt on wp-hackers was enthusiastic about the one-click installation type stuff--which is what we're putting together for pmw, so hopefully we can help out with that for whatever version it's going into (we = i, jalenack, masquerade)...
[18:31] <relle> Firas, can you talk about pmw for a minute?
[18:31] <Firas> uh.. sure
[18:31] <relle> So everyone knows what it is.
[18:31] <Jalenack> good idea
[18:31] <Firas> It's like wp-plugins.net and WPPM reloaded :)
[18:32] <Firas> so
[18:32] <Jalenack> Using this site as somewhat of a model : http://pimpmysafari.com
[18:32] <Firas> an easily browsable directory of themes and plugins, and an accompanying one clikc installer
[18:32] <tunicwriter> (PMW = Pimp My Wordpress, for those wondering)
[18:32] <Firas> the model in my mind is more like mozilla update, but sure, pimpmysafari site works as well
[18:33] <relle> Wow
[18:33] <relle> themes AND plugins?
[18:33] <Firas> the main difference between those sites and what we're doing
[18:33] <Firas> is that we're going to organize by tags and let people tag things as they browse
[18:33] <Jalenack> and also, people will be alerted when their plugins get updated
[18:34] <Firas> yup, that's the client part.. alerting them upon update is easy, but it's also replace the old files with new ones
[18:34] <relle> and searches by keywords?
[18:34] <Jalenack> sure, why not? ;)
[18:34] <Firas> relle: the tags are keywords
[18:35] <relle> k
[18:35] <Firas> but we'll search through the actual readmes as well (ie the plugin description)
[18:35] <relle> So themes, plugins, and...?
[18:35] <Firas> we'll put things that aren't bona fide plugins into plugins (such as plugins of plugins :)
[18:35] <relle> Ah, so it means that theme and plugin authors got to work harder on their readme files.
[18:36] <relle> Excellent stuff.
[18:36] <relle> Okay, so nag relle wants to know WHEN?
[18:36] <Firas> yeah, i really need them to do the readme stuff i posted to wp-hackers about
[18:36] <relle> Only after 1.6 is released or before?
[18:36] <Firas> else they won't get listed
[18:36] <Firas> relle: as for progress, we're working on the plugins part of the site for now
[18:37] <Firas> it's coming along nicely
[18:37] <Firas> not sure of any dates though
[18:37] <relle> rboren: you are working with them to make the transition between versions and all?
[18:37] <Podz> Firas:: "When it's ready" :)
[18:38] <rboren> What, who, me?
[18:38] <Firas> hm, i don't believe ryan and i have spoken about anything yet :)
[18:38] <relle> um....maybe should start talking?
[18:38] <Firas> hey rboren!
[18:38] <rboren> :-)
[18:38] <rboren> ryan@boren.nu
[18:39] <Firas> what do you think of what we're doing? i think it'll be cool for users
[18:39] <relle> rboren: we're all really excited about 1.6 and have a million questions, but the hammer is on us not to pimp it much, so it makes it hard to ask questions about it.
[18:39] <rboren> Sounds cool. I haven't looked at it closely though. I've been in vacation mode.
[18:40] <Firas> ah, cool.
[18:41] <relle> Firas, make sure this is on the agenda for next week.
[18:41] <relle> We'll WANT a status report. ;-)
[18:41] * Quits: alphaoide (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)�)
[18:41] <Firas> relle, i'm not sure i want to talk much about vapourware
[18:41] <Firas> but ok
[18:41] <relle> I think it is great that the next version and projects like this will help WordPress users make their life easier and the process easier.
[18:42] <relle> A status report isn't show and tell ;-)
[18:42] <relle> Anyone have anything else?
[18:43] <tunicwriter> I do!
[18:43] <tunicwriter> I'm pretty.
[18:43] <tunicwriter> Fin.
[18:43] <io_error> I have thoughts on 1.6, but I can save them :)
[18:43] <relle> Thanks to everyone for helping and again, BIG GROUP HUG
[18:43] <relle> Congrats to everyone on the Forbes thing.
[18:43] <tunicwriter> HUMP! Not hug :P
[18:44] <relle> </meetup>

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