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IRC Meetups/2005/May/May25RawLog

  1. wordpress-meetup: jonabad mdawaffe MCincubus element photomatt Alex____ neuro` masquerade relle westi|gone saerdna sunny256
#wordpress-meetup was created on Wed May 11 12:44:24 2005.

mdawaffe: relle: you probably saw it, but I finally moved in http://codex.wordpress.org/wpdb_Class

relle: No, not yet - horrible name.

mdawaffe: :) how so?

relle: Can we call it something "else". Fred, Sally, Alex...Moe?

MCincubus: "class" is meaningless if you're not a PHP programmer, I think.

relle: "class" is meaningless even if you are a student. ;-)

neuro`: it is yes

MCincubus: hehe

relle: I call it a shovel.

MCincubus: All people know is that they keep seeing $wpdb-> all over the place

relle: Not me. I see nothing. I know nothing. I am nothing.

mdawaffe: Since my intent was to add it as part of the Dev Docs, I figured a dev type name wasn't so bad

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MCincubus: mdawaffe, hm, perhaps not, in that case.

relle: So Devspeak is okay only for Devs now.

MCincubus: is spoiled by ezSQL

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mdawaffe: relle: It's not meant to be elitist or exclusionary, that's just what the thing is called. I'm open to other ideas.

mdawaffe: MCincubus: perhaps not what? not ok?

relle: Interfacing With the Database

MCincubus: mdawaffe, perhaps it's not "so bad" ;-)

mdawaffe: MCincubus: ah :)

relle: Talking Database Talk?

relle: The Database Speaks to Us

relle: I don't know what it is so I am useless until I read it.

photomatt: Database Class?

neuro`: hello photomatt

relle: One more word, photomatt, and that might be the title.

mdawaffe: relle: Carthik, Owen and I had a discussion on wp-docs about referencing things by what they do vs/ what they're called

photomatt: is there a there word minimum to get in the door/

relle: Do what does this DO?

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photomatt: howdy neuro`

mdawaffe: I think the consensus for the dev doc section was to try to name things by what they were called, with referenced in the articles, section headers, and links to those articles about what they did

relle: Database Class _______?

MCincubus: nearly everything, relle ;-)

photomatt: Database Class Sucks

relle: lol

mdawaffe: the wpdb class is a set of PHP bits that makes interfacing with the database easy

photomatt: it's what it's called and what it does

mdawaffe: haha

relle: Database Class Bits

relle: :-)

relle: Interfacing with the Database ain't right...cuz that's like explaining MySQL stuff.

mdawaffe: i don't have a good functional definition for a PHP class

mdawaffe: anyone?

photomatt: I think the current name is FINE, we worry too much about names

photomatt: people search for everything anyway

photomatt: as long as the synonyms are in the article, it's groovy

skippy: " A class is a collection of variables and functions working with these variables" http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.oop.php

relle: Until YOU are the one writing the link for that goobly gook over and over again.

relle: Database - the wpdb Class

mdawaffe: Sounds about like "set of PHP bits" to me :)

relle: I'll look at it later and give you some recommendations, mdawaffe.

mdawaffe: relle: ok

photomatt: probably a better question is whether developer/hacker documentation belongs in the codex anyway

jonabad: it does

jonabad: if its not in the codex, where should it go?

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Initial topic: WordPress Weekly IRC Meetup | Wednesdays at 5PM EST / 2PM PST / 9PM GMT
#wordpress-meetup: jonabad_ Firas skippy coffee2code Alex jonabad mdawaffe MCincubus element photomatt Alex____ neuro` masquerade relle westi|gone saerdna sunny256

mdawaffe: photomatt: all your eggs in one basket... :)

skippy: Personally, I vote for keeping devel doco in codex.

skippy: at the least, it makes it easy to have a unified backup. =)

photomatt: if we're going to have developer-focused documentation in the codex, we shouldn't worry as much about giving it "friendly" names

relle: If people are going to write about using WordPress, it needs to be all in one place.

photomatt: that target audience is VERY different from people who will be reading up on the $wpdb class

mdawaffe: photomatt: agreed on the names. Some knowledge should be assumed for dev docs

relle: Then put a THE in front of it ;-)

relle: Fits the TOC styles better.

photomatt: developer docs is the whole reason we allow page names to begin lowercase

mdawaffe: relle: that makes it harder to just type in the url and expect an answer. That's one thing I love about wikipedia. You know what you want? Then you know where it is.

photomatt: for all the template functions and such

relle: okay.

relle: But that doesn't work on this mediawiki.

photomatt: yes, for things that are objects (in several senses) we don't need articles, probably

photomatt: articles being the, a, etc

relle: You type in "The article" and you get nothing. You type in "The Article" and it will pop up.

mdawaffe: ah - I thought you meant "we don

mdawaffe: 't need documentation", photomatt

mdawaffe: :)

coffee2code: do we want average users to come across developer technical pages on the internals of WP when searching codex?

mdawaffe: relle: agreed - caps is weird

relle: Is the capitalization issue with the Codex going to ever be fixed, or can it?

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photomatt: coffee2code: there are worse things to come across on the internet

Firas: heh

photomatt: relle: it's a limitation of the crappy software, nothing we can do ATM

relle: okay. I'll stop harping on that.

skippy: coffee2code: average users will know it's not for them, and hit BACK, and carry on with their search.

photomatt: anyone want to write WikiPress?

relle: hee hee

coffee2code: i guess we'd have to worry about having enough developer technical pages in the first place, too, eh? ;)

relle: Where's carthik?

photomatt: is not entirely kidding

mdawaffe: photomatt: "want to" or "able to"?

photomatt: mdawaffe: yes, the two are very different

MCincubus: coffee2code, I don't know about you, but I use the Codex as a resource, and I'm not the target audience. I think most people go there looking for "how do I do X" or "how do I use Y" and depending on what the question is, the answer will vary in technicality. I don't see a problem with that.

relle: Okay, it says in #wordpress that carthik won't be here.

skippy: ah, the Open Source tradition: project A is _almost_ what I want, but not quite, so I'll write my own full-blown solution.

coffee2code: photomatt: i considered BugPress at one point

Firas: skippy: which will be _almost_ what someone else wants

mdawaffe: photomatt: in many ways :)

photomatt: coffee2code: trac is too good

mdawaffe: but we were talking, I think, about whether dev docs should be in codex or somewhere else

relle: CODEX vote!

photomatt: there seems to be a consensus they should be, I'm fine with that

skippy: Mediawiki suppors plugins, including new <tag> processors. Why don't some of us focus on making mediawiki better fit our needs?

Firas: i think they should remain there, no need for headaches about whether a certain explanation should be there or somewhere else

MCincubus: photomatt, there isn't really a line between the two... it's very much a progression

skippy: we can establish a wiki working group.

mdawaffe: Firas: agreed, I have no problem with everything being in codex

coffee2code: photomatt: i think the bug tracking feature of trac lags behind its other components

relle: Anyone against?

MCincubus: perhaps things could be categorized by "technical difficulty"

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Firas: just put a tag for target audience

photomatt: skippy: let's discuss that at the end, I added it to "projects" on the agenda

skippy: we could create a {{DEVELOPER}} include slug

coffee2code: MCincubus: good idea

skippy: okay, photomatt

photomatt: let's try to go in order through the agenda

mdawaffe: ok: w00t



relle: YAHOOO

Firas: w00t

skippy: is _fantastic_

photomatt: seems to be working much better

Firas: "WordPress Resource Center and Theme Viewer"

MCincubus: It's the solid base we've been wanting...

photomatt: mdawaffe deserves a big pat on the back for all the work he did on bugs

relle: KUDOS, KIDDO!

MCincubus: mdawaffe++

mdawaffe: says it was mostly ryan

photomatt: so thank you

coffee2code: good work mdawaffe

MCincubus: Yeah, Ryan is a beast.

Firas: thanks mdawaffe

mdawaffe: (but you're welcome :) )

photomatt: I set up shadow an account he put the theme stuff on - http://themes.wordpress.net

relle: It's awesome!

relle: We need to spread the word.

photomatt: so I think that's taken care of now

relle: Everyone put it on their blog.

photomatt: I'm also upgrading that server to a new one this week, so all that should be snappier by the end of the month

MCincubus: What is the policy going to be on validity of themes or checks for malicious themes (heaven forbid)?

MCincubus: Wasn't someone working on a theme validator, checking for basic actions?

photomatt: MCincubus: we'll cover that at the end, it's on the agenda

photomatt: codex cleanup week

relle: http://codex.wordpress.org/Codex:Cleanup

relle: SIGN UP NOW and we'll have a schedule within in a week or so.

relle: We are doing it a little differently. It's nine days not a weekend.

relle: We will be asking for volunteers to sign up and to request assignments.

MCincubus: a novena? ;-)

relle: We will be handing out homework.

photomatt: I think the best way to give out tasks is via email

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relle: You don't know what to do, give us your skills and we'll tell you what to do and where to go...hee hee.

relle: The wp-docs mailing list will be rolling.

photomatt: for the people that signed up, say "here is what needs to be done, can you do it today, tomorrow, or are you too busy?"

photomatt: relle: I think sending it directly is more effective

relle: When people sign up on the list to participate, I'll get in contact with them any way I can. Direct if I have to.,.

relle: Knock on doors at the most.

relle: :-)

photomatt: relle: excellent!

relle: We really want to spearhead this to fill in the holes and such that will be discussed later.

MCincubus: "How did you get this number?"

relle: I have my ways...

relle: So check out http://codex.wordpress.org/Codex:Cleanup and the references and get on the list and I'll come a knocking.

photomatt: okay, so relle will crack the whip

relle: You are warned.

relle: NEXT.

photomatt: I must say the Codex has been really impressing me lately

photomatt: bringing the codex into the WP look and feel

relle: Not to name names, but Carthik and I have been working seriously over time.

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relle: We are plowing through a lot of old stuff and cleaning it up, and getting all our ducks in a row.

relle: He's been slaving like a mad man.

Firas: what we basically need is a call for mediawiki experts methinks

photomatt: the look/feel thing is on me right now, and I'm a little swamped

mdawaffe: photomatt: agreed about impressiveness. Lots of effort has gone into that. Props to relle and Carthik

skippy: well, we can easily change the logo.

jonabad: mediawiki is a beast to try to edit

relle: And many others.

skippy: replace the flower with the new WP W

photomatt: perhaps that could be an early task for the Wiki WG skippy proposed

relle: We're just the ones with the baseball pat.

relle: Skippy: soon.

relle: *BAT not pat!

mdawaffe: (relle: true to some extent, there's a LOT of great contributors, but you're still #1 in my book)

relle: Ah, shucks by golly.

photomatt: relle: what are WP Groups?

relle: We got more Lessons coming and we desperately need DEV DOC stuff.

jonabad: photomatt, do you have an idea of how close the codex and wp.org should look?

relle: WP Groups are the Wordpress Groups all over the world.

skippy: I'd volunteer for mediawiki themeing, but I pretty much suck at site design. =)

relle: I've been working on an article about them for the Codex but I need a few more people to get information from about groups they are involved with.

MCincubus: I'm a fan of fixed-width layouts, but not for this...

photomatt: relle: cool, I've been calling that WordPress International

relle: Skippy: talk to Carthik about themeing and such.

relle: See, there you go. Information I need to know for the article.

skippy: WP International? Are these the local language efforts?

jonabad: or local user groups?

photomatt: the international branches of WP vary wildly, from really nice (.de) to borderline shady and possibly illegal (and squatters)

relle: Spread the word. Email me direct any info on WordPress International Groups you know of or are involved in so I can add info to the article.

relle: lorelle@cameraontheroad.com

relle: Or at User:Lorelle on the Codex.

photomatt: so I would like to hold off on linking to ANY of the international groups until we officially get in contact with those people

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relle: I need to know what you all are doing, what's going on, and some fun facts about the group.

MCincubus: I've had contact with the WP guy in Brazil

photomatt: relle: the only official ones will be on subdomains of wordpress.org

relle: If you want to post a note about it on your blog or the forum, please use my Codex User:Lorelle link or website at http://www.cameraontheroad.com

relle: photomatt: where?

photomatt: relle: we were talking at the same time, I was trying to say that we're not linking to any international groups yet because they're not all up-and-up

mdawaffe: photomatt: any chance I could get southlosrobles.pasadena-ca.wordpress.org?

mdawaffe: ;)

relle: Okay.

photomatt: so writing an article about them is probably not the best idea right now

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relle: Well, I just want some basic info for the Codex to let people know this is something that is happening.

relle: Ringmaster is in a group and are others, so there are activities.

photomatt: we may also be talking about different things, I'm talking about distributions of WP and you may be talking about the meetups (?)

relle: And it will grow.

relle: meetups.

photomatt: okay, let's call them meetups then :)

skippy: WPUGs

relle: I haven't heard that in ages!

photomatt: those are totally groovy, we should encourage that as much as possible

relle: It was for WordPerfect.

photomatt: skippy: geeky!

skippy: WordPress User Groups

relle: So anyone with info on WordPress Groups/Meetups, let me know and spread the word.

skippy: hey man, I'm the presentation coordinator for my Linux User Group...

relle: WordPerfect User Groups.

photomatt: AFAIK, all the WP meetups died when Meetup.com started charging

relle: I helped start the first one in Seattle. hee hee. LONG time ago.

photomatt: even the san francisco one, which was fairly large

MCincubus: that's a shame

relle: The groups didn't quit, the listing on meetup.com did.

relle: Really?

skippy: did anyone cobble together a decent meetup.com replacement?

jonabad: relle: i'm with wpug houston

relle: We can list their sites (if they have one) on the Codex, so that is a backup.

photomatt: I heard the civicspace folks are working on one, and someone left a comment on my site about meetupxp.com

relle: Then email me, jonabad_ with info on them.

Firas: ah, go civicspace

MCincubus: waits for 37signals to make one and release it as open source...

photomatt: I think the best way to get them started back up is to

coffee2code: skippy: a think a few might come out of RailsDay

photomatt: add geo-information to forum profiles for discovery

photomatt: and announce upcoming meetups on the dev blog, which has a lot of readers

relle: Great.

relle: Get me the info and I'll work this up.

photomatt: basically right now we really need hackers for WP-related but not directly WP things

relle: NEXT.

skippy: State of the Codex

relle: As you have seen, the Codex is beefing up.

skippy: I, for one, think Codex kicks ass.

relle: We're going to put a lot of energy into the Clean up

mdawaffe: agrees with skippy

skippy: I heart being able to refer people to in-depth doco.

relle: But we also need to get the FAQ cleaned up.

relle: It looks like the faq.wordpress.net is toast.

relle: We're going to put together a team to move everything over to the Codex.

MCincubus: skippy, yeah, you can give a link, and not have to add comments...

skippy: jumping ahead, one hole I think should be filled is a working example of home.php as a splash page.

relle: Anyone want to get involved, go sign up.

MCincubus: just... "go here" and it has everything they need.

skippy: MCincubus: absolutely.

relle: Skippy: go for it.

skippy: relle: I was afraid you'd say that.

MCincubus: skippy, like using Denis's plugin? (I think it's Denis)

skippy: relle: I'm too busy writing plugins for you! =)

relle: Sign ups for fixing things is at Codex:Task_List

skippy: MCincubus: ??

relle: skippy++

skippy: oh, yes.

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MCincubus: http://www.semiologic.com/projects/static-front/

skippy: sorry, I was dense.

relle: Other holes in documentation?

relle: We need to know.

photomatt: relle: That would probably something better to find out on the support forums

skippy: Someone in #wordpress had a devel of a time trying to get a splash page working. home.php is the best way, but this person was ... slow to pick up. Adn we had no thorough exaple of how to do it.

relle: http://codex.wordpress.org/User:Lorelle/Articles_Wanted is an example of a Table of Contents (rough draft) we are working on.

skippy: s/devel/devil/

skippy: gads.

Firas: oh my god that's a lot of content

relle: photomatt: Nuclearmoose just posted a big goodbye and a slap at the codex for lacking documentation.

jonabad: relle: is that where people should post where they have a hole to be put in the queue?

relle: Going to the forum isn't as easy as it seems.

mdawaffe: sweet mericiful crap

relle: What do people think are the big gaps, besides development.

photomatt: relle: I think that was related mostly to personal issues, the Codex is richer than ever before

relle: jonabad: yes.

skippy: Plugins was NuclearMoose's biggest beef, as I read it.

relle: True, but does anyone feel like there is an area that needs to be added or is missing?

skippy: and I agree, it's a pain to find plugins.

Firas: yeah, and that's going on in /extend

MCincubus: as I understand, it was complete blogging burnout.

photomatt: we're addressing plugins and themes in /extend

mdawaffe: skippy: yeah - lack of one stop shopping

skippy: mdawaffe: beyond one-stop shopping

skippy: it was ranking / evaluation.

relle: Let's not fuss over why he left, let's concentrate on what we can do to improve the Codex material.

skippy: identifying which of the three plugins that do similar things does most of what you want it to do

relle: We desperately need documenation and advanced technique articles.

mdawaffe: skippy: fair enough

MCincubus: relle, like, walkthroughs showcasing advanced WP usage?

relle: Absolutely.

skippy: "I can't believe they're using WP to do that" kind of stuff.

relle: The intermediate folks can find what they need all over and know enough to get into trouble, and Lessons is working to cover the beginners.

relle: But we need to keep the advanced users occupied.

jonabad: are there things that get asked over and over in the forums that could be handled by articles?

relle: We're building a list and the http://codex.wordpress.org/User:Lorelle/Articles_Wanted is part of that.

MCincubus: Hm, Podz would know.

relle: I thought he would be here by now.

relle: We're calling him now.

relle: I've been talking to him and he's helping add to the list.

skippy: i haven't seen too much that could be easily abstracted into an article, from the occasional visits to /support that I make

photomatt: well if there is, we should have a tag for those threads

skippy: I skim the headlines, and pick off ones that look like I can address.

MCincubus: walkthrough-candidate

photomatt: relle: sounds good

jonabad: next?

photomatt: let's move on to talking about forums, since that seems natural

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photomatt: do we have a tag for saying "this needs codex love"?

relle: We've missed you!

mdawaffe: (hey Podz!)

relle: ?codex?

skippy: "codexify" ?

Podz: sorry - been having half an evening off from wp :)

skippy: unacceptable, podz.

Podz: true :)

MCincubus: Podz, not on Wednesday evenings you're not!

skippy: tee hee

relle: We just finished talking about the holes in the documentation and they all agreed that you would help me find forum stuff to fill in the gaps in the Codex.

Podz: should have been a full one :)

photomatt: Podz: people who aren't around get volunteered for stuff ;)

Podz: okay - sounds cool

skippy: common unanswered questions

mdawaffe: skippy: "codify"?

Podz: LOL

MCincubus: needs-codex

photomatt: I kinda like "codify"

relle: We'll get into specifics later.

relle: We're about to talk forum stuff.

relle: Can you give us a heads up on that?

relle: What's going on, the Your WordPress and all.

photomatt: whatever tag we decide, it should go on the front page of Codex somewhere

photomatt: "If you see a forum thread that could be turned into a Codex article or that could be addressed by better documentation, add tag blah"

mdawaffe: http://www.answers.com/codify

relle: might as well be "codex"

relle: Will do it.

mdawaffe: ooh - "blah"'s a good one

photomatt: Your WordPress posts are showing up on the front page

MCincubus: relle, but that could mean that the answer is already on the codex

photomatt: I really don't know why, they shouldn't be

Podz: yep - Craig did some of that ages ago so a search should find stuff

skippy: I agree "codex" should suffice.

jonabad: i suggest "needscodex"

relle: Yeah, but then its easy to remember.

relle: We can figure out if a topic has been covered or not.

Firas: votes for codify and says codexify is just wrong

skippy: MCincubus: how often would we tag "codex" if the answer is on the codex? That doesn't help tag searches at all

relle: And after it is written, it will still be tagged "Codex" since we can't change that.

mdawaffe: "codex" sounds meta to me

relle: I vote codex.

photomatt: codex is too meta

photomatt: codex would be a post about the codex

mdawaffe: photomatt: ding! circle gets the square

relle: I hate codex, but it is the chosen name and I wish it were something else. Not in charge of the world: Matt is.

photomatt: let's start with "needscodex" which is explanatory and not used anywhere now

Firas: ah, codex is a nice exquisite name :)_

photomatt: if we change later, I can change it in the DB

relle: Podz: how many questions do we get about the codex specifically.

Podz: damn few

relle: I vote codex.

mdawaffe: I vote needscodex

relle: too wordy.

MCincubus: photomatt, I think there should be a massive link to Codex from top of /support/

relle: And after the article is in?

MCincubus: People might not click "docs"

relle: screams with joy!

skippy: i don't like needscodex, but it's less ambiguous. I'm okay with it.

relle: great idea.

Firas: then you post on the topic with the codex link

photomatt: http://wordpress.org/tags/needscodex

photomatt: Let's add a link for that to the Codex front page

relle: icky.

photomatt: like I said, it doesn't need to be perfect now, it's just a tag!

mdawaffe: relle: as you noted, Matt rules the world ;)

photomatt: let's go with that and if we decide to change it, we can

jonabad: says yay for good enough

photomatt: but arguing now is just wasting time

skippy: no it's not!

Firas: says let's get on with it

skippy: oh...

photomatt: ;)

relle: Since the majority were for "codex".

relle: Okay, next?

jonabad: what's the deal with "your wordpress"?

mdawaffe: so, Your WordPress is broken, photomatt ?

relle: Everything under one roof topic.

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relle: Oh, yeah, Your WordPress.

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Podz: We need "Your WP" off the front page

skippy: how much traffic does that even get?

Podz: it clutters

mdawaffe: Podz: desperately

skippy: can you combine Your Wordpress with Misc., and shunt them both off the front page?

photomatt: http://bbpress.automattic.com/changeset/112

photomatt: is meant to exclude forums from the latest discussions on the front page

skippy: each forum has ~2000 posts, less than most others

mdawaffe: Misc often has pertinent meta info about forums, though

jonabad: photomatt, how long for that change to go into effect?

photomatt: jonabad_: I put it in a few days ago

mdawaffe: photomatt: is that just for stickies?

photomatt: it's not working, don't know why

photomatt: OH

Podz: When it happens, one post - sticky ? - for a week to explain the changes to regulars ? State, then close. No need for discussion

photomatt: wow, that's a dumb mistake

photomatt: okay I can fix that now

photomatt: moving on...

mdawaffe: ;)

Podz: hehe

jonabad: awesome

photomatt: as for 1.5.2 or 1.6, I'm still watching the discussion on hackers

photomatt: we'll make a decision about that sometime next week

Podz: nah - shoot for 1.8 :)

MCincubus: well, I think it's a given that any major security holes will get a patch, right?

photomatt: MCincubus: of course

relle: Okay, on to everything under one roof?

jonabad: its a good read

Firas: Podz: remember how the lull in development causes angst

photomatt: what's backup day/week?

Firas: lull in stable releases i mean

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relle: First, everything under one roof.

relle: We haven't covered that yet.

Podz: I've not written my bit yet

relle: Totally.

photomatt: relle: we very much covered that, in the first part of the meeting

relle: Okay.

relle: Alright, Backup Day or Week.

relle: Podz and I are working on a very cool project.

relle: We want to schedule a Backup Your WordPress Site Day or Week in July.

Podz: week ..... that's for dialup users with big db's :)

Firas: ooh

Firas: sweet, should be monthly :)

relle: He's working on documentation for the Codex to hold everyone's hand for backups and we want to publize it everywhere on the Forum, in supporters' sites.

relle: Everywhere.

Podz: I will write a complete newb guide to doing it

relle: Brings attention to the issue and to WordPress.

mdawaffe: Podz: relle: that's a fantastic idea

relle: Whew!

Podz: and can form part of an upgrade guide too

relle: Okay, Podz, the first vote of confidence.

Podz: yay!

Firas: said "sweet" :/

skippy: and then we all trade backups and import one another's data! Hilarious hijinks ensue! Next on CBS!

relle: We REALLY want to pump this up.

mdawaffe: takes second amiably

relle: So we need some help.

photomatt: what do you need help with?

relle: Is there anything going on with WordPress in July?

relle: We don't want a conflict with a release at the same time.

relle: That's a different issue that consumes volunteers.

Firas: relle: that depends on whether they go with x.2 or .6

Podz: though a release after would be fine :)

photomatt: Firas: that's right

relle: Yeah, but when?

photomatt: if we go with a minor release, it could conceivably be in July

skippy: ... if Backup Day were to happen monthly, we might consider montly releases of WP stable the day after or so...

relle: Let's get through the first one.

Podz: skippy:: we need rock solid docs first. We have none.

skippy: Podz: I understand.

photomatt: is backing up a documentation problem or a code problem?

skippy: I'm thinking ahead.

relle: I want to see EVERY WordPress blog mention this and spread the word that WordPress is having a Backup Week.

photomatt: I would argue that better backup should be built into WP

photomatt: and then the documentation/effort to get people to back up is orders of magnitude easier

jonabad: i'm using gamerz' database manager, its very slick and fits right into the admin interface

Podz: photomatt:: while I agree, I don;t see the harm in promoting site tools like phpmyadmin

mdawaffe: photomatt: could that go into 1.5.2? Seems a 1.6 to me

relle: For now.

Firas: 1.6 has a lossless xml export thing on the list

Firas: isn't that basically a backup?

photomatt: Firas: it is

MCincubus: that would be so cool..

skippy: if wp-content/ is writable, can we create a DB dump into there?

jonabad: skippy, yes

MCincubus: sure. Or offer it as a download to the user like PHPmyAdmin does

photomatt: if we decide backup is important enough, and I think it might be, that would be a great killer feature for a minor release

relle: And would be great to have the week or two before a Backup Week.

mdawaffe: pedantically says backups are *always* important "enough".

skippy: can we just appropriate phpMyAdmin's code for this?

Podz: in which case, such a feature would render the intended work fairly redundant ?

skippy: Podz: not at all.

Firas: Podz: it's vapourware still :)

skippy: well, some of it would be rendered redundant

jonabad: i suggest checking out gamerz db manager: http://www.lesterchan.net/portfolio/programming.php

photomatt: Podz: well, insofar as it should be MUCH easier for people

skippy: but it woul dbe a good learning experience for a lot of people.

relle: Just so I understand. It would backup the entire database PLUS the site files?

Podz: I'll do a complete newb's guide then. I'll try to get it done soon ... promise :)

mdawaffe: skippy: not everyone is interesting in learning :)

skippy: Podz: remember, lots of people still use older versions.

Firas: Podz: do it, it'll also help 1.2 etc

Firas: jinx skippy

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skippy: so even though some shiny new feature exists in 1.5.2, not everyone will avail themselves to it.

photomatt: okay, so let's approach this two ways

skippy: mdawaffe: no, that's true.

photomatt: podz and relle can focus on making newbie-oriented documentation

Podz: Any guides we do - they will need a LOT of testing after some hard scrutiny. So at some point, the call will go out :)

mdawaffe: (and Firas )

photomatt: and the hackers can focus on integrating backup for 1.5.2

photomatt: and get an idea of a timeline for that

relle: When will you have some kind of timeline idea?

relle: By next week?

Firas: hmm that can be one of the 'projects' your thinking of assigning photomatt

photomatt: next week is fine

photomatt: Firas: exactly

MCincubus: I'd like to have image upload functionality beefed up for 1.5.2 as well

photomatt: so let's get on to the projects

skippy: assuming we can crib from phpMyAdmin, I'd guess this is a couple day's effort.

relle: Okay, let's put it on the agenda to make a date for the backup project timeline.

skippy: also look at gamerz's solution.

Firas: what's up with the " Theme section" item?

photomatt: like I said earlier, I desperately need some help with some projects

photomatt: Firas: that's redundant with theme gardener

Firas: ah k

photomatt: so let me say a sentence about each project

relle: Huh?

jonabad: skippy, i'll take some screenshots of it in my install and post them in the meeting notes so people can see how it works

skippy: jonabad_: nice.

photomatt: and then speak up if you want to lead the mini-project

skippy: jonabad_: what's the license?

jonabad: skippy, i'll check and post that as well.

MCincubus: it's (c)... no license mentioned that I can see.

Firas: it seems to be all rights reserved

photomatt: theme gardener - moving 3-6 themes into wp-themes.org and cleaning them up, to be distributed on /extend/themes

Firas: MCincubus: but i bet he'd be delighted if someone pings him about building it into wp, skippy?

photomatt: bbPress - another core dev for the bbpress project, focus would be integrating WP user system and extending profiles

MCincubus: Firas, I would think so, but we should tread lightly...

skippy: let's hold backup discussion for later.

skeltoac: re theme gardener 'cleaning them up': please ensure all hooks are in proper places. Folks have had problems with missing wp_footer()

photomatt: skippy: please

photomatt: OpenID - someone to investigate writing a OpenID authentication plugin

MCincubus: Firas!

Firas: Well, I can commit to OpenID and report back with some implementatino next week

photomatt: that's all for now, anyone interested?

photomatt: Firas: okay, adding your name to the list as leader for that

relle: what is /extend/themes?

Firas: k

jonabad: photomatt, what about codex redesign?

relle: jonabad: things are afoot, just not ready to talk about yet.

photomatt: jonabad_: that's under the wiki tech WG, which I'll start a mailing list for

skeltoac: relle: wp.org/extend/themes

relle: Stay tuned.

jonabad: tuned i will be

photomatt: so we need a theme gardener and bbpresser, anyone interested?

relle: So what is a theme gardner?

skippy: oh I'm interested, but haven't the time. =(

relle: A pruner of themes?

mdawaffe: I'd love to help out with bbPress, but don't have the know how. I can help with bugs and such though

photomatt: relle: read above

skeltoac: relle: they grow better if you talk to them :)

photomatt: mdawaffe: that'd be great, you nailed the topic_time bug

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mdawaffe: mdawaffe: do you want me to patch that? Which is the best solution?

relle: Okay, I'm simple here. If you move in a couple 3-4 themes into wordpress.org/extend/themes what makes it different from listing them on the Codex or via the viewer?

photomatt: mdawaffe: I'll PM you

mdawaffe: dope: s/mdawaffe/photomatt

mdawaffe: k

Firas: relle: it's a start to a user friendly dispensing system

skippy has signed off IRC ("Free as in Puppies!").

photomatt: and they're also verified/endorsed

photomatt: many of the themes on the lists are broken

photomatt: which causes more support headaches

photomatt: and sometimes it's little things, like a missing wp_footer

relle: So you need someone to manage the area and someone(s) to proof and verify the themes.

MCincubus: verifying can be done automatically.

photomatt: yes, someone who can manage them all in SVN

relle: Okay, just want to make sure this is spelled out in the minutes right.

photomatt: getting theme authors to work directly in SVN has failed pretty badly, I guess because it's too hard

relle: Having poked at it, I agree.

MCincubus: really?

skeltoac: We don't all have SVN, can't all install it.

Firas: well, has anyone written up a hot tutorial for tortoisesvn?

photomatt: so this would be someone to work with them and improve the quality of the code, take out the weeds - a gardener :)

Firas: it's dead easy you know

MCincubus: TortoiseSVN is SOOO easy

mikelittle: I could help with the them gardening, but don't have the time to manage

relle: What about ringmaster?

relle: He'd have to be asked, but he did great things with redalt.

relle: and the plugins.

photomatt: owen already has a lot on his plate

relle: k

Firas: i can commit to writing a sweet tortoisesvn tutorial if you still want to try that tak

Firas: * tack

relle: Okay, if no one steps up here, where else are you going to ask?

photomatt: Firas: taht'd be great

Firas: k, i'll do it before monday

photomatt: I guess the gardener position is unfilled for now

photomatt: I'll bring it up again next week

mdawaffe: promise to give the someone on gilded WP branded spade

relle: If you want, we can add it to the Codex:Task List - just in case we catch a few flies there.

mdawaffe: and a menacing uniform

MCincubus: I might do it for a uniform...

relle: OOOH, me tooooo! ;-)

relle: Leather WordPress Uniform.

relle: NEXT!

skeltoac: Hot!

jonabad: i think we're done :)

photomatt: heh

photomatt: okay, I think that's it for this week

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