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IRC Meetups/2005/October/October19RawLog

[18:03] <photomatt> <meetup>
[18:03] <photomatt> thumb is slowly getting better
[18:04] <photomatt> but the medicine they gave has gotten a LOT better
[18:04] <photomatt> so I'm able to be a lot more active
[18:04] <masquerade> so, when are you going to tell us how exactly you hurt it?
[18:04] <photomatt> it's actually not a good story at all, I just woke up one morning and it was sore. over the next few days it got worse and worse until I had to go to the dr
[18:05] <masquerade> oh, how lame, what a disappointment, foo on you!
[18:05] <photomatt> they're not sure what it is yet
[18:05] <photomatt> super lame
[18:05] <tunicwriter> Hurt it in your "sleep," eh?
[18:05] <KevinMarks> some kind of RSI?
[18:05] <ringmaster> That story sucks. Just tell everyone what it really was about. Sex injury.
[18:06] <westi|coding> ahh that kind of RSI
[18:06] <tunicwriter> ringmaster: don't steal my jokes ;o
[18:06] <Podz> ringmaster, no - that was when I broke a bone :)
[18:06] <ringmaster> Ow.
[18:06] <tunicwriter> Podz: You're officially my hero xD
[18:06] <Podz> LOL
[18:06] <photomatt> oh my
[18:06] <tunicwriter> Er... wait wait, he said <meetup> ... shouldn't we be doing that? xD
[18:06] <masquerade> anyways....how about the actual meetup
[18:07] <photomatt> well first I wanted to go waaay back to an old topic
[18:07] * io_error puts photomatt's thumb on the agenda
[18:07] <photomatt> and get your thoughts on the stability and such of the codex
[18:07] <tunicwriter> #wordpress-docs has been dead for weeks now.
[18:08] <io_error> where is relle?
[18:08] <masquerade> photomatt, well, the codex has definitely been a lot better than the off and on off and on off and on off and on of the last few months
[18:08] <masquerade> io_error, relle is still helping hurricane cleanup afaik
[18:08] <photomatt> well if it wasn't clear, the codex is now hosted by yahoo
[18:08] <io_error> Yeehaw!
[18:09] * Joins: mumbles
[18:09] <photomatt> the main downside is I don't have any control over the hosting, very limited access
[18:09] * tunicwriter elbows io_error in the ribs to get out the proper "Yahooooo!"
[18:09] <photomatt> io_error, are you from texas too?
[18:09] <io_error> photomatt: Tennessee
[18:10] <photomatt> so for example if china is being blocked (or if china is blocking it) there's not much I can look at
[18:10] <io_error> It also explains why wordpress.org gave me a "Y!" favicon.
[18:11] <tunicwriter> That's... not too cool.
[18:11] * mumbles wishes he had joined 10 minits ago
[18:11] <mumbles> bummer.. restart
[18:12] * Quits: mumbles (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)�)
[18:12] <photomatt> we're on a system similar to geocities, so I wouldn't be surprised if they block geocities and we're in the same block of IPs or something
[18:12] <io_error> That could be.
[18:12] <io_error> wordpress.org is accessible, just not the codex
[18:12] <ringmaster> So is the plan to stick with Y! for the codex, or are there plans, or what?
[18:13] <photomatt> that's the plan for the foreseeable future, from my point of view it's been very stable
[18:13] <photomatt> I just wanted to check that with you guys
[18:13] <io_error> heh, aside from just now :)
[18:14] <ringmaster> Seems ok to me. It stinks that it's "foreign" hosting, but better their problem when it goes down than yours.
[18:15] <photomatt> they do the mirrored datacenter thing
[18:15] <photomatt> so if one gets swallowed into the bowels of the earth, it switches to the other
[18:15] <photomatt> which is sick
[18:15] <io_error> hm, in my universe, sick is usually a bad thing.
[18:15] <masquerade> photomatt, one database server or mirrored database servers also?
[18:16] * Joins: mumbles
[18:16] <photomatt> files, db, everything
[18:16] <masquerade> well, mirroring the database...that's masochistic
[18:17] <photomatt> their problem, not ours :)
[18:17] <io_error> heh, the more you can make Someone Else's Problem, the better.
[18:17] <masquerade> heh, true, true, let them kill themselves, I'm not complaining
[18:17] <photomatt> that's the idea
[18:18] <photomatt> the larger idea here is more robust, which is a nice transition into our next topic
[18:18] <photomatt> kvetch time: development processes, organization, anything
[18:19] <photomatt> now's the time if anything is on your mind
[18:19] <io_error> since I seem to be somewhat out of the loop:
[18:20] <io_error> what's the roadmap for 1.6? when will it be feature complete?
[18:21] <photomatt> that's a good question
[18:21] <photomatt> big holdups before were media and import/export
[18:22] <photomatt> http://trac.wordpress.org/ticket/1776 handles all of the media stuff I expect in this release
[18:22] <photomatt> and ryan is trucking along on redoing the importers
[18:23] <photomatt> after that I think we need a good 3-6 weeks of bug fixes and polish, feature freeze
[18:23] <ringmaster> Media needs a good bit more plugin hooks than it had at last look.
[18:23] <photomatt> fortunately for a lot of bugs we get near real-time feedback on wordpress.com, so hopefully this will be the most stable major release yet
[18:24] <tunicwriter> What's the version number gonna be? :P
[18:24] <io_error> very nice.
[18:24] <io_error> tunicwriter:
[18:24] <photomatt> I was thinking 5.0
[18:24] <tunicwriter> io_error: sweet!
[18:24] <io_error> photomatt: may I suggest "2006"?
[18:24] <photomatt> you may
[18:25] <Podz> WordPress five
[18:25] <Podz> not 5 :)
[18:25] <io_error> 2006 > 5
[18:25] <photomatt> the real question is which jazz musician, which ryan blogged about the other day
[18:25] <westi|coding> photomatt: what about things like http://trac.wordpress.org/ticket/1476
[18:25] <tunicwriter> io_error: This is WP, not ICQ
[18:25] <photomatt> http://boren.nu/archives/2005/10/15/the-music-of-wordpress/
[18:26] <io_error> Yes, update notification would help a lot
[18:27] <masquerade> photomatt, what I'm still rather curious about is things like the wp-mail screwups, which I've been seeing bug reports since early 1.5 days, that's still getting posts on the forums about. I know all is busy, but for something to miss the attention for that long
[18:27] <photomatt> masquerade, that's on the wiki for 1.6 still
[18:28] <photomatt> westi|coding, I like that idea, when it came up on the codex a while back I set up a REST web service for it on wordpress.org
[18:28] <westi|coding> photomatt: yes the patches on there use your web service ;-)
[18:28] -> *nickserv* server
[18:28] -> *nickserv* name
[18:28] -> *nickserv* ghost
[18:28] -> *nickserv* nickserv
[18:28] -> *nickserv* identify
[18:28] * PotterSys is now known as PotterSys|phone
[18:29] -> *nickserv* server
[18:29] -> *nickserv* name
[18:29] -> *nickserv* ghost
[18:29] -> *nickserv* nickserv
[18:29] -> *nickserv* identify
[18:29] * PotterSys|phone is now known as PotterSys
[18:29] <photomatt> and it looks like it's flagged properly, so I see no reason why it shouldn't be applied soon
[18:29] -> *NickServ* IDENTIFY chucha
[18:29] <photomatt> trac does need a lot of cleaning up still
[18:29] <photomatt> it's a little out of hand it seems
[18:30] <io_error> go thru, apply patches, etc.?
[18:30] <westi|coding> i think we need a clear way of flagging things towards a milestone or something as a way in for ryan/you to picking stuff to possibly commit
[18:30] <photomatt> I think it would be great to have a bug day
[18:30] <io_error> westi|coding: what's wrong with the current way?
[18:31] <ringmaster> What's the current way?
[18:31] <photomatt> masquerade, are there any patches on trac for wp-mail already?
[18:31] <masquerade> the big Milestone dropdown in trac...
[18:31] <westi|coding> well the 1.6 milestone has 94 active tickets at present and 92 closed
[18:32] <masquerade> photomatt, http://trac.wordpress.org/ticket/1536 that came up on a quick search
[18:33] <ringmaster> Who goes around flagging the tickets as bg|commit, though? We shouldn't just commit all the open tickets for the 1.6 milestone.
[18:33] <masquerade> ringmaster, markjaquith and skippy do the bg|... flags
[18:34] <westi|coding> i have added bg| flags in the past but not commit - only has/needs patch
[18:34] <ringmaster> westi|coding: Me too.
[18:34] <masquerade> I have once or twice, but not recently
[18:34] <io_error> So have I, but I don't get to file bug reports very often :)
[18:35] <westi|coding> I have been trying to go through new tickets and at least dump the ones that already exist - following the timeline as rss has its benefits
[18:36] <photomatt> so it sounds like people are involved
[18:36] <photomatt> at least people who are here
[18:36] <westi|coding> gardenin all the old stuff however is much more of a problem
[18:37] <masquerade> I think a major problem is that there are so many tickets that its hard to search before posting a new report, and thus we get more dups
[18:37] <io_error> error_bot: tracsearch wp-mail
[18:37] <error_bot> io_error: http://trac.wordpress.org/search?q=wp-mail&wiki=on&ticket=on&changeset=on
[18:37] <masquerade> and it makes it even harder, and its building upon itself
[18:37] <photomatt> I would agree with that
[18:38] <io_error> need to be able to filter on open tickets only, for instance
[18:38] <masquerade> is there any simple way to purge dups?
[18:39] <masquerade> remove them from the list, from the timeline, etc.
[18:40] <photomatt> I don't think we can delete delete in trac
[18:41] <photomatt> without going into the sqlite db
[18:41] <masquerade> well, if somebody knows python, and could help let us, I think we could all chip in an hour or two and purge all the old crap and dups
[18:41] <photomatt> also 0.9 is coming out within days
[18:42] <photomatt> which will have email notifications (!)
[18:42] <westi|coding> Woot!
[18:42] <photomatt> http://projects.edgewall.com/trac/roadmap
[18:42] <photomatt> "two weeks"
[18:42] <masquerade> that means three, but its still pretty close :-P
[18:42] * io_error waits a month
[18:42] <photomatt> heh
[18:43] * Joins: jalenack
[18:43] <masquerade> but yes, being able to purge I think has potential to help clean things out faster
[18:43] <photomatt> would you guys prefer a saturday or sunday for a bug day?
[18:44] <masquerade> I could go either
[18:44] <jalenack> saturday
[18:44] <io_error> Sunday.
[18:44] <ringmaster> Why settle for one day?
[18:45] <masquerade> yeah, how about an entire bug weekend?
[18:45] <jalenack> sure
[18:45] * westi|coding has to go RL calls
[18:45] * westi|coding is now known as westi|gone
[18:46] <photomatt> a weekend is good
[18:46] <ringmaster> If we plan it out, we could do some kind of pairing via IRC, and our partners could mark tickets as bg|commit, rather than just tossing a bunch of unvetted stuff back into Trac.
[18:47] <masquerade> how about we setup a temporary IRC channel and have a bug weekend manager or two, who takes all the patches, puts them all into their install, and puts one huge patch to trac at the end of the weekend
[18:48] <photomatt> weekend of nov 5?
[18:48] <swoolley-work> I think you need an sql refactoring weekend
[18:48] <mumbles> aww.. ill mis eveything then ..
[18:48] <mumbles> ;p
[18:48] <swoolley-work> take all the SQL queries and abstract them into a secure interface
[18:51] <photomatt> let's tentatively plan for nov 5 weekend
[18:52] <masquerade> sounds good to me
[18:52] <ringmaster> I might actually be around for that.
[18:52] <masquerade> I'll try not to party too hard that weekend
[18:56] <masquerade> photomatt, well, I've not got too much long before this break, at which point I must move since i have a wire in a walkway, so care to skip ahead to stuff on dynamic function loading for a second?
[18:56] <photomatt> sure, go for it
[18:57] <masquerade> well, in case you didn't see it, skeltoac had an idea for the dynamic function loading, between him and I, I've got a WP install up and running that's dynamically loading files when the functions are needed, right now, there's no speed benefit, but there is a noticble drop in the number of functions being loaded
[18:57] <mumbles> ill be getting hammered the nov 5th weekend
[18:57] <masquerade> so, what would your thoughts be on reorganizing all the functions, group them by what would commonly be called together in themes and the like, and moving to loading them as needed?
[18:58] <ringmaster> What is the benefit if not speed? Memory usage?
[18:58] <masquerade> ringmaster, there's no speed benefit now, but I do believe if we can move them to be a bit more optimized on how many functions are in each file, how functions are grouped, the speed increase would be noticeable
[18:59] <ringmaster> What would a theme developer need to do to activate a funciton that wasn't already available?
[18:59] <masquerade> atm, its almost identical as far as speed goes, it jumps between being faster and slower depending on the page being loaded
[18:59] <masquerade> ringmaster, its all automatic, fully backwards compatible
[18:59] <photomatt> I'm open to moving functions around
[19:00] <photomatt> it'd be very nice to have selective loading
[19:00] <masquerade> the functions are moved to new functions, named _oldfunc, and oldfunc becomes a simplistic wrapper to load the file _oldfunc is in if the function doesn't exist
[19:00] <masquerade> so, the dynamic loading of files is transparent to everyone
[19:01] <ringmaster> And so every new function added in the future will need a wrapper?
[19:01] <photomatt> could we do it without wrappers? that seems hacky
[19:01] <masquerade> ringmaster, skeltoac and I have an array I parsed through and built, that contains the function name and the file its loaded in, and wrappers are autogenerated
[19:02] <ringmaster> URL to your current code for later review?
[19:02] <masquerade> photomatt, what way other than wrapper functions makes sense? I'd think it to be incredibly sloppy to force theme authors to do something like wp_load('group'); or include_once('file');
[19:02] <masquerade> ringmaster, well, atm, my server is down, the basic ideas are in that mail skeltoac sent on the hackers list, as soon as I can manage to get my server up or when I get home to my other computers, I'll post some code
[19:03] <swoolley-work> doing wrappers is a performance hit but it can be worth it
[19:03] * Quits: cyphase (Connection timed out�)
[19:03] <swoolley-work> you should instead do it with variable variables
[19:03] <ringmaster> Primarily I'm curious about the auto-wrapper code. I can imagine how it's done, but am still interested in seeing it actual.
[19:04] <masquerade> swoolley-work, loading 1000 wrapper functions and 100 real functions is faster than 1000 real functions, since they're considerably longer
[19:04] <swoolley-work> masquerade: I said it's probably worth it
[19:04] * Joins: skeltoac
[19:04] <swoolley-work> however why don't you just use variable references to all the functions
[19:04] <photomatt> I think there are some very logical divisians
[19:05] <swoolley-work> so that you just include the pointers to the functions that load the include then run it
[19:05] <swoolley-work> and inside each file have it redefine the variable variable to point to the real place
[19:05] <swoolley-work> involves touching every function but it might be a lot faster
[19:06] * Joins: cyphase
[19:06] <photomatt> there are comment functions that we only use on comment pages
[19:06] <swoolley-work> instead of an entire function call, it merely involves a derefence
[19:06] <photomatt> functions.php is a great example of stuff that's only used on one admin page, or in one other thing
[19:07] <photomatt> right now we have comment-functions.php, but it's a mishmash of different things to do with comments, not really logically divisible on a page type level
[19:07] <photomatt> just like we don't include every theme file, we should include every include file for every type of page
[19:08] <photomatt> I think having some plugins that do weird things add a single include_once line would be an acceptable tradeoff
[19:08] <masquerade> photomatt, yeah, and there are various other functions that are sprinkled around, I've already moved some things around, stuff like pings is moved to admin files, etc.
[19:08] <photomatt> masquerade, could we do that as a first step?
[19:08] <photomatt> see what, if any, difference it makes
[19:08] <photomatt> if we still need more, then move to the _function thing
[19:08] <photomatt> it seems like it would be useful in both cases
[19:08] <masquerade> photomatt, definitely
[19:09] <photomatt> masquerade, I'll be happy to commit these, just trac it and drop me an email with a link
[19:10] <photomatt> it's been a long pet peeve of mine
[19:10] <masquerade> photomatt, alright, it'll be a few days, probably into next week mostly, I'm still out here in SF, and my server is down for some unknown reason so I can't grab my own code
[19:10] <photomatt> that sounds fine
[19:10] <photomatt> it'll be a good match for the cleanups markjaquith has been sending in too
[19:11] <photomatt> cleaner, better organized code? I think that would make everyone happier :)
[19:11] <masquerade> heh, yeah
[19:11] <skeltoac> hear hear!
[19:11] <io_error> I'll buy that.
[19:11] <masquerade> in 1.6 when we say code is poetry we can back it up, instead of showing a mess :-P
[19:11] <photomatt> :)
[19:11] <photomatt> hear hear
[19:12] <photomatt> next topic is new media functions
[19:12] <swoolley-work> can I refactor the SQL if you don't mind, maybe abstracting it to adodb?
[19:12] <masquerade> "code is poetry?! is that what you said?! what the hell is this 2000 long file of misc functions for?! that's not poetry!"
[19:12] <io_error> masquerade: Even poetry can have structure.
[19:12] * io_error is a fan of iambic pentameter
[19:12] <photomatt> swoolley-work, there has been discussion of heavy abstraction classes like adodb on wp-hackers before, it's been shot down most every time
[19:13] <masquerade> swoolley-work, that also reminds me, I was thinking about writing a patch for memcached for people who really need it
[19:13] <swoolley-work> why has it been shot down?
[19:13] <swoolley-work> you like writing insecure software?
[19:13] <photomatt> yes, it keeps like exciting
[19:13] <masquerade> swoolley-work, adodb is a lot of bloat
[19:13] * io_error passes out asbestos suits
[19:14] <swoolley-work> write your own abstraction class then
[19:14] <photomatt> we slip in a few bugs every release just to keep the schedule up
[19:14] * skeltoac adds a layer of tin foil to his hat
[19:14] <photomatt> and to encourage people to backup more
[19:14] <photomatt> *cough*
[19:14] <io_error> I backed up!
[19:15] <photomatt> swoolley-work, could the security aspects of something like adodb be added to our current db class without adding all the bloat?
[19:15] <swoolley-work> I bet half the wordpress.org pagerank hits are from security sites doing a vendor link
[19:15] <photomatt> and shouldn't be we dealing with those things before they get to the DB?
[19:15] <swoolley-work> photomatt: they could
[19:15] * ringmaster takes a suit from io_error and descends into the fallout shelter.
[19:15] <masquerade> swoolley-work, ezSQL can be used as abstraction, we could grab the other files that use the same class methods, but currently WP relies on mysql's datetime functions, so unless we clear that out first
[19:16] <photomatt> wow you're a real charmer
[19:16] <masquerade> I'll brb everyone, moving out of here before my wire gets run over
[19:16] <swoolley-work> photomatt: adodb has a prepare'ish system that can simply be emulated
[19:16] <swoolley-work> I don't really care that it's portable across oracle and shit-q-l-server
[19:17] <ringmaster> Dude.
[19:17] <skeltoac> swoolley-work: Can you code it and dogfood it for a while and tell us how it goes on wp-hackers?
[19:18] <swoolley-work> I looked it a while ago, found 256 queries that had to be refactored and put it further down my priority list
[19:18] <swoolley-work> in response to the dogfooding it
[19:18] <swoolley-work> agreed, I hate critics that won't help coding, it just seemed like a big thing to do
[19:18] <photomatt> well we are actively consolidating queries in this release {Internet went down here}
[19:20] <swoolley-work> I might actually suggest my future company include wordpress provisioning in its software
[19:21] <swoolley-work> (I'll get an offer on friday so I don't know until then though)
[19:21] <photomatt> sounds good, if you do any auditing and find anything feel free to send a note to wp-hackers
[19:21] <photomatt> skeltoac, would you like to kick off the next topic on media functions?
[19:21] <skeltoac> Media functions? What media function? :-P
[19:22] <skeltoac> Okay. Anyone running Trunk or a WP.com account has seen image uploading appear in the Write Post and Write Page screens.
[19:22] <photomatt> yep
[19:23] * Joins: st1lgar
[19:23] <skeltoac> I have some cleanup to do in that area, including moving several things into functions and out of image-uploading.php
[19:23] <skeltoac> and making some things pluggable, such as the thumbnailing picture.
[19:23] <skeltoac> function*
[19:24] <skeltoac> Also, per ringmaster's request, the whole image-uploading iframe will be "pluggable" via a src filter. (awesome idea btw)
[19:25] <ringmaster> Must... have... Flickr... browser...  :)
[19:25] <skeltoac> ringmaster: anywhere you want a hook, just say so. I'll do my best for you. :-)
[19:25] <ringmaster> Cool beans.  :)
[19:26] <skeltoac> The latest iteration is not yet committed: http://trac.wordpress.org/ticket/1776
[19:26] <skeltoac> To see how the frontend works, check out http://andyskelton.com where I have posted some samples.
[19:27] <skeltoac> I see no reason this can't be integrated with off-site image hosting (Flickr et al)
[19:27] * Quits: masquerade (Read error: 113 (No route to host)�)
[19:27] <photomatt> anything you need help with?
[19:28] * Joins: cocko
[19:28] * Joins: masquerade
[19:28] <ringmaster> What of movies and audio? I've heard about this "Podcasting" thing going around, might get popular.
[19:28] <masquerade> anyone care to pastebin the last few lines or so that I missed?
[19:28] <skeltoac> At this point what I need from folks is lots of testing and feature requests.
[19:28] <masquerade> lost the wifi
[19:29] <skeltoac> ringmaster: The core is set up to handle any mime type you throw at it.
[19:29] <ringmaster> Do child posts show up as attachements in RSS?
[19:29] <skeltoac> ringmaster: Not yet.
[19:29] <skeltoac> Thanks for that.
[19:29] <photomatt> skeltoac, what about uploading through xml-rpc?
[19:29] * skeltoac makes a note
[19:29] <photomatt> attachments in emails?
[19:30] <skeltoac> photomatt: I could use help with that. Any takers?
[19:30] <ringmaster> Might need presentation functions too, in case someone wants to build a "gallery" template for a post.
[19:30] * Quits: Podz ("Somebody's coming up. Somebody serious."�)
[19:30] <skeltoac> ringmaster: It supports template files named for mime times or partial mime types.
[19:31] <skeltoac> in this order: image.php, jpeg.php, image_jpeg.php, subpost.php
[19:31] <skeltoac> If none found, it adds a filter to prepend the object to the_content and uses single.php or the page template.
[19:31] <ringmaster> That's for single files, though. What about a template for a post that has many images attached that is just a "gallery"?
[19:32] <skeltoac> ringmaster: A post with several images is just a post with several images right now. If you want to flesh out that idea, it's interesting to me.
[19:33] <st1lgar> any ways to layout the images in the post ?
[19:33] <skeltoac> maybe we can use some kind of gallery template for a special class of posts. Let's talk about it after we have the core a little more stable.
[19:33] <ringmaster> skeltoac: I'll be around for that discussion.  :)
[19:34] <photomatt> cool!
[19:34] <skeltoac> st1lgar: That all depends on TinyMCE or your own XHTML/CSS
[19:34] <photomatt> I'll look at the email stuff
[19:34] <st1lgar> ok, no tag based approach for instance ?
[19:34] <skeltoac> st1lgar: Not sure what you mean.
[19:34] <st1lgar> many gallery plugins define custom tags for layout
[19:35] <ringmaster> At present, getting the d-n-d functionality to work on the <textarea> would be of prime interest to me.
[19:35] <skeltoac> d-n-d?
[19:35] <ringmaster> drag-n-drop
[19:36] <photomatt> dungeons adn dragons!
[19:36] <skeltoac> Oh, right, the textarea... that's a tall order.
[19:36] <skeltoac> (do-not-disturb)
[19:36] <ringmaster> I know. But seeing as I've come to hate TinyMCE these days... helpful.
[19:37] <st1lgar> could dnd handle left/right-floats, or should everything be fixed ?
[19:37] * Quits: PotterSys|b-day (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)�)
[19:37] <skeltoac> ringmaster: Your hate for TinyMCE might be useful to me as I seek to overturn the Alliance and control the universe...
[19:37] <st1lgar> i see problems with resizing the page, but maybe the are already solved ?
[19:38] <masquerade> st1lgar, putting floats in posts has potential to be _very_ dangerous because it could cause inconsistancies with themes
[19:38] <ringmaster> My 5 megapixel photo has a thac0 of 4 and will gladly help you in your dnd quest to overturn the Alliance.
[19:38] <skeltoac> st1lgar: Styling is not going to be done in the image-uploading frame. Only src and href attributes will be changed there. Styling happens after DND always.
[19:39] <st1lgar> ok, but you drag the picture to a location in the post right ?
[19:39] <skeltoac> yes
[19:39] <ringmaster> DND should probably/possibly apply a class, and then a frame could style that class based on knowing that a DND would create it.
[19:39] <st1lgar> ok
[19:39] <ringmaster> Er, ...then a theme could style...
[19:40] <st1lgar> can tinymce render that ?
[19:40] <ringmaster> No, unfortunately.
[19:40] <photomatt> you can have a custom CSS file
[19:40] <ringmaster> But you'll see it in the handy new superpreview!
[19:40] <ringmaster> photomatt: Would it be possible to set the custom CSS file to point at the theme CSS??
[19:41] <skeltoac> ringmaster: I can add a default class to dnd images.
[19:41] <ringmaster> skeltoac: A good idea, methinks.
[19:41] <skeltoac> ringmaster: I'm going to be looking at TinyMCE in the near future. I'll look into that theme CSS question.
[19:42] <ringmaster> Cool. My intuition tells me that it'll be a mess, but smarter minds have produced better code faster than I in the past.
[19:42] <st1lgar> i'm using floats in a gallery plugin. it doesn't seem to break themes at the moment.
[19:42] <st1lgar> are they out of the picture, of could they still be an option after some investigation ?
[19:43] <skeltoac> st1lgar: Floats are available for images in TinyMCE
[19:43] * Parts: KevinMarks
[19:43] <ringmaster> Does TinyMCE in WP now float or align? Last I saw, it aligned.
[19:43] <st1lgar> skeltoac: ok, nice, that's great for resizing
[19:43] <skeltoac> Does it align? Sorry if I misspoke.
[19:43] <masquerade> ringmaster, if there's a chance that its invalid, TinyMCE probably does it
[19:43] <skeltoac> masquerade: :-P
[19:43] <ringmaster> masquerade: That's what I was thinking.
[19:44] <skeltoac> Has anyone looked at the subposts at http://andyskelton.com and had any thoughts?
[19:45] <skeltoac> Right now it's in backwards-compatibility mode, just using themes/default/single.php for subposts.
[19:45] <ringmaster> My thought is that I need more time to form thoughts on it, since I didn't know it was there.
[19:46] <skeltoac> Good thought!
[19:47] <ringmaster> Before I have to run, an interjection: photomatt had asked earlier for things that could be done better or streamlined, and I just now thought of something. Is there anyone here who has worked with it that doesn't despise WP_Rewrite?
[19:48] <masquerade> ringmaster, well, if they think like me, then I'm sure they despise it also, but I must say, it comes in handy for lighttpd users
[19:48] <ringmaster> I think ryan sacrifices chickens daily to keep that code running on everyone's servers...
[19:50] <photomatt> it's a little hairy
[19:51] <mumbles> rjight
[19:51] <mumbles> bed for me i think
[19:51] * Joins: michel_v
[19:52] <io_error> yes, this has been going a while, and I still need to eat.
[19:52] <michel_v> I blame friends for organising cool parties on wednesdays, really
[19:52] * Joins: skeltoac|mobile
[19:52] <skeltoac|mobile> sorry. wifi died.
[19:52] <ringmaster> I'm thinking that it could be a tad easier to read/integrate with. Just sayin'.
[19:53] <skeltoac|mobile> i didn't get anything after i said good thought
[19:53] * Joins: skeltoac_
[19:54] * Quits: skeltoac (Nick collision from services.�)
[19:54] * skeltoac_ is now known as skeltoac
[19:54] <skeltoac> Sorry... this coffee shop's wifi isn't very good today.
[19:54] <skeltoac> I didn't get anything after I said "Good thought!"
[19:55] * Parts: skeltoac|mobile
[19:55] <masquerade> skeltoac, http://pastebin.com/399192
[19:55] <skeltoac> Thanks :)
[19:55] <photomatt> alright, to wrap up
[19:55] <masquerade> skeltoac, be lucky I'm so nice, nobody did it for me when I dropped wifi! :-P
[19:55] <photomatt> last item was future of wp.org
[19:56] <masquerade> photomatt, can I add a quick inquiry about wp.com and the forums again after that?
[19:56] <skeltoac> ringmaster: I like wp_rewrite but it took me two days of tearing my hair out and drinking lots of whiskey to understand it :)
[19:56] <photomatt> masquerade, yes
[19:58] <masquerade> are we supposed to just keep on kicking questions about wp.com and wpmu to the forums at mu.wp.org? I don't even visit the forums as often as Podz and them and its starting to get annoying
[19:59] <masquerade> I can only imagine them ripping their hair out
[19:59] <photomatt> no no no
[19:59] <photomatt> .com people should just use the help form
[19:59] * Joins: skeltoac_
[19:59] <photomatt> don't send them to mu.wordpress
[19:59] <photomatt> mu people can use mu.wordpress
[19:59] <masquerade> photomatt, well, that bit was more towards those who are asking about mu features
[20:00] <skeltoac_> I would think MU admins would handle their users' support questions as a first line.
[20:00] <photomatt> MU is mostly an unsupported product still
[20:00] * Quits: skeltoac (Nick collision from services.�)
[20:00] * skeltoac_ is now known as skeltoac
[20:01] <photomatt> all I really had to say about .org is I'm getting together with Mitch Kapor next week about the foundation
[20:01] <photomatt> hopefully their experience can help accellerate the process
[20:02] <io_error> nice
[20:03] <photomatt> and that's it, as I find out more I'll let you guys know
[20:04] <photomatt> alright, let's wrap up then
[20:04] <photomatt> </meetup>
[20:04] <photomatt> thanks everyone for coming out today

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