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Talk:WordPress Quick Start Guide

Requesting Feedback

I added this Quick Start Guide page because I think the Codex is too daunting in scope. New users need something smaller and quicker to get up and running. I've linked abundantly to more information and resources in each section.

One thing I'm concerned about is its length, and also the formatting. And I also feel like I need images in there. Any suggestions for improving the guide in those three areas?

If you have any feedback on this page, just let me know. --Tom 06:08, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Tom this looks great.
  • If you were to break this into pieces, guess you could put the sections beginning with Style Your Site into a Part Two.
  • Formatting seems okay, though I'm not a big fan of the div's around the major section headings such as Get Set Up.
  • Also just a note about linking to other Codex articles - [http://codex.wordpress.org/Main_Page WordPress Codex] can (or should) be expressed as [[Main_Page|WordPress Codex]].
  • If you do add 'images', there are some screenshots at WordPress_Screenshots to which you can refer.
Thanks for such a nice article. --MichaelH (talk) 13:50, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Need help / guidelines about commercial content

Hey MrMist, and all, we have had some pleasant exchanges in the past on a similar topic, I would like to get clear on the Codex policies regarding posting / updating help content and particularly the rules around commercial content. I have my own WordPress Quick Start Guide, it was chosen by MakeUseOf.com as their WordPress user guide (and is currently being revised) ie its good. However it does contain affiliate links and promotion of our training programs. It contains reviews of commercial themes, a complete 1-hour wordpress site demo video, things that users want to know. Would it be totally inappropriate to post a link to this at the bottom of this page. The place I am coming from is that I am a professional WordPress trainer, I have a great deal of knowledge of what users want and need in terms of training and I would like to find some way for me to contribute to your project thanks Mbeneteau

Hi. I suspect that linking off to anything that is driving advertising revenue would not be acceptable. We also have a general guiding principle that the content for the docs should remain on-site for maintainability reasons. I will put this to the docs mailing list so that others can add their opinion   mrmist 08:44, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Thank you very much MrMist, I also replied to the wp-docs list on this topic, copying below:

Mika A Epstein (ipstenu@ipstenu.org) says:

>I'd vote for no, just on the basis of the pay for affiliate links. Not something good for the codex. If they want to rewrite it for the codex, that would rock!   mrmist <listswpdocs@mist.org.uk> says:

>Hi. I suspect that linking off to anything that is driving advertising revenue would not be acceptable. We also have a general guiding principle that the content for the docs should remain on-site for maintainability reasons. I will put this to the docs mailing list so that others can add their opinion

I would like to set the context of the proposal, as follows:

1) Here is the home page of the commercial offer (requires opt-in, and be aware that the document is currently undergoing extensive revisions):

http://wpacademy.tv/wordpress-quick-start-tutorial/

2) I am more than willing to remove any affiliate links, or replace them with affiliate links to Automatic or whoever (other than perhaps a brief mention of additional content and training available from WordPress Academy), and to make the document available as a direct download from my site (no optin requirement)

3) The document contains detailed illustrated tutorials and external video links, so moving it all to the Codex is a very substantial work, and there is still the problem of what do with external video links, but I am open to any proposals at this stage, particularly if attribution and links to additional content on my site can be made prominent.

4) There is an issue here, that I really don't know the answer, which is that almost all Wordpress users are going to require some commercial services (hosting, themes, support or training) and therefore the reviews of commercial services are really helpful to the users, shall I even say necessary. Is it a requirement that content on the Codex contain NO reviews / recommendations of commercial products and services, or simply that these reviews be fair and unbiased?

I really don't know what's right here, but let me add, that I am a professional Wordpress educator, and there is a crying need for a free training guide that would really deliver on the promise of "your first site in 3 hours", I feel that there would a lot of value (win-win-win between the open-source community, the users, and me) to find a way to make this work. There is also a general misconception that Wordpress is primarily a blogging platform, whereas 90% of users will be using Wordpress as a CMS, and this is the focus of my training and the source of my livelihood.

I appreciate any views and feedback on this.

PS: I would also appreciate any help on how to sign the codex to get the date

Mbeneteau

Denial of Commercial Activity on the Codex

While we appreciate your concerns and sentiment, changing the rules of the WordPress Codex to embrace any commercial activity through endorsement, links, etc., is against our long standing policies. We work hard to remove any and all links to "commercial" WordPress projects, content, etc. The occasional and appropriate helpful article hosted off the WordPress Codex is permitted on a case by case basis, but these are to specific articles, not entire sites.

We've had this debate since the beginning of WordPress and it has been discussed thoroughly, and revisited often, as it is now. WordPress now offers many alternatives to the Codex for promoting WordPress training, development, and consultancy through the WordPress Support Forums new social profiles and through Code Poet http://codepoet.com/ and I recommend you apply there.

Thank you for your diplomatic inquiry and good luck with your efforts. If you wish to donate your time and efforts to improving the Codex, it is much appreciated as it is a community effort we cherish deeply, giving back to the community. For those of us involved for a long time, we've found the benefits of giving worth the return a hundred fold.

Lorelle 17:26, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Thank you Lorelle

Thank you Lorelle that was very clear. Would the guidelines therefore allow a link to a single external article describing our WordPress Quick Start method? It would be long.

And yes I am sure you are right with regards to the benefits of community involvement, and I am open to that. Mbeneteau 21:43, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Lorelle replies

@Marc: Probably not. If you solved some great bit of code and published it, offered in depth analysis on a subject beyond the basics covered in the Codex, or offered a unique way of using WordPress, then it would be a appropriate to link to that as a resource link at the bottom of a related article.

Links to general articles that repeat a lot of what is already been offered in the Codex, that's redundant and unnecessary. We'd have to watch all the time to ensure that it was updated to the latest version and...trust me, we have enough trouble keeping the Codex updated without worrying about off-site content. :D It's more important we improve and keep up our own documentation.

By standards and integrity, we mean in keeping with the WordPress Codex policies, such as the use of the capital P in WordPress, guiding not selling, etc. It's a bit subjective, as is appropriate, but the policies have been honed well since 2004.

To be completely honest and to preserve this for posterity, here's where, IMHO, your site fails:

1. The content is not freely accessible. 2. To access the content, the user must give away private and personal information. 3. The purpose of the site is to sell WordPress tutorials and content, NOT offer open and free content. 4. The author of the content and information about the people behind the site is invisible or hard to find, thus lacks integrity and transparency. Without qualifications, there is no verification that this isn't just another "make money with WordPress" scam. 5. The site resembles the many that have come before, including the art work. It really closely matches a site I railed against promoting "buying" WordPress http://lorelle.wordpress.com/2006/06/30/dont-buy-wordpress-its-free/

While you and your site's integrity might be unquestionable, you are asking people experienced in spotting these and this is what we see. Trust me, we've seen plenty.

Thank you again for your understanding in this. Again, I highly recommend Code Poet and the WordPress profiles as a great way to help promote your efforts for the WordPress community, though I would work harder to change the site's look, feel and intentions to be more in keeping with the noted WordPress experts we do support. We need all the help and support we can get and it is much appreciated.

Lorelle

Mbeneteau 21:43, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

THank you Lorelle that was very good feedback

Thanks Lorelle that was very helpful. I can work with all that, such as the optin requirement, let me reflect.

Since you are so frank with me allow me to reciprocate. One difficulty of the Codex system of maintaining documentation is that authors come and go and they are quite busy under the best of circumstances. Your current documentation hasn't changed much in 3 years and it's really extremely brief and lacking guided tutorials and screen shots, quite aside from the neutrality requirements that are something of a necessary evil (they make the job of providing practical information more difficult). (As an aside I noticed a Bluehost hosting link in the Guide). I spend a large chunk of my time writing WordPress documentation and researching / reviewing commercial WordPress products. I am seeking a way to contribute this work to the Codex in some fashion, and I am unable to see clearly right now what that would be but the benefits seem compelling to all. In any case I appreciate the feedback and will continue to reflect

Also in the spirit of honest disclosure, my interest in Code Poet etc would be stronger if my primary goal was to promote my services. I already run large sold-out webinars through affiliates and finding students is not an issue. Of course promoting my services is part of my objective but I am also a writer by trade and I take pleasure in my craft for its own sake. I hope that makes sense.

PS: Just registered for CodePoet, good idea thanks.

Mbeneteau 21:42, 4 August 2011 (UTC)


Continuing on

Thank you. Not so thrilled to have my email discussion pasted in here, but I'll let it go this time.

I'd like to finish this conversation by saying that the Codex is a living document. It is constantly changing and evolving. As you are new to the docs team and not up on all that is happening the background, I recommend you contact Jane Wells for more information and help as she is running the new WordPress handbook projects which will not "replace" the Codex per se but be intricately linked to the WordPress program. All efforts in documentation are being put into play there and the Codex is being used to support much of that work.

Again, if you would like to edit and contribute content freely to the Codex without expectation of return, it is much appreciated. Our policy still holds and links to your site will not be welcome unless it meets our policy, and then on a case by case basis. If you would like to continue this discussion, please contact Jane Wells.

Thank you.

Lorelle 04:23, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks again

Thanks again Lorelle, I am very curious to find out what Jane Wells and all are up to, just emailed.

I posted your reply because I thought it was good and very eloquently summarized the issues, if I violated protocol please forgive me.

I loved the sound of "since you are new to the team...", yay ;)

I do occasionally contribute to Codex, the issue (which I am sure you understand) is that I feel that to stand up to its title "WordPress Quick Start Guide" the Codex needs to be expanded by about 5 times and the entire thing reformatted with screenshots, links to videos.. it's a major project and I am willing to do it, or some variation thereof (perhaps in the form of the Handbook project you mention), if there can be some value to me and no loss to anyone else or the community, which I feel is an ongoing conversation / negotiation, which I appreciate very much your engaging with me.

Onnwards and upwards...

Mbeneteau 16:37, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Feeds

The statement in the article as of today: "You can see your feed by adding /feed after your domain." appears to be false for many users. It didn't work for me, and I ran across an explanation that this is only true for users who have a certain plugin installed. I'm afraid I've lost the reference. The section as written now could be very confusing for someone who tries "/feed" and is unsuccessful. There is a more comprehensive explanation at "http://codex.wordpress.org/WordPress_Feeds#Finding_Your_Feed_URL", but I am not very familiar with feeds, so I don't feel I can rewrite this section of the Quick Start Guide myself. Would someone take a look at this and modify the article? -Drstevewright 21:17, 23 February 2010 (UTC)


I'm pretty sure www.example.com/yourblog/feed should work. It does on my test site, which has no extra plugins (it's basically a stock install.)

mrmist 21:43, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

The RSS feed http://yourdomain.com/feed only works if permalinks are enabled. Mbeneteau 23:17, 4 August 2011 (UTC)